Is there a musical transmission in Dudjom Tersar Tröma Nakmo?

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Dharmaswede
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Is there a musical transmission in Dudjom Tersar Tröma Nakmo?

Post by Dharmaswede »

As the headline says.
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Re: Is there a musical transmission in Dudjom Tersar Tröma Nakmo?

Post by Grigoris »

Dharmaswede wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:10 pm As the headline says.
What do you mean by "musical transmission", like when we get mantra transmissions?
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Re: Is there a musical transmission in Dudjom Tersar Tröma Nakmo?

Post by Dharmaswede »

In some Chod Sadhanas, there is a transmission of the melodies – in addition to the lung and the wang. Thus, there is a lung of the text, and then there is a transmission of the melodies. In practice, these can be given simultaneously but the point is that the melodies are an important enough part of the practice to warrant a transmission in its own right.
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Re: Is there a musical transmission in Dudjom Tersar Tröma Nakmo?

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Dharmaswede wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:49 pm In some Chod Sadhanas, there is a transmission of the melodies – in addition to the lung and the wang. Thus, there is a lung of the text, and then there is a transmission of the melodies.
I am unaware of this need for the Throma Nagmo chod. I imagine that because the practice is done before the empowerment, that this would act as the transmission. I would say to check with your teacher though before saying that this is the case for you though.
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Re: Is there a musical transmission in Dudjom Tersar Tröma Nakmo?

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Thank you, much appreciated.
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Re: Is there a musical transmission in Dudjom Tersar Tröma Nakmo?

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I’d agree that if you’re interested in the Dudjom Troma cycle
it’s important to find a qualified Lama and ask them. Different Lamas will have different styles of transmission.

Generally there are more public group practices where one might pick up the melodies in that context, and more restricted ones that are intended for solitary or wandering retreats. With the latter, you’d certainly require a melody transmission or you wouldn’t know the melodies! That said, these days even those practices are shared more publicly by some. So it’s variable.
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Re: Is there a musical transmission in Dudjom Tersar Tröma Nakmo?

Post by Dharmaswede »

Adamantine wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:27 am I’d agree that if you’re interested in the Dudjom Troma cycle
it’s important to find a qualified Lama and ask them.
This is sound advise, all around in Vajrayana.
Adamantine wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:27 am Different Lamas will have different styles of transmission.
Incisive observation, which prevents a lot of confusion.
Adamantine wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:27 am Generally there are more public group practices where one might pick up the melodies in that context, and more restricted ones that are intended for solitary or wandering retreats. With the latter, you’d certainly require a melody transmission or you wouldn’t know the melodies! That said, these days even those practices are shared more publicly by some. So it’s variable.
There quite a lot of recordings these days, as well. In fact, I had one Lama hinting at the possibility of giving me this empowerment, adding that I would need to learn the melodies from recordings with Chagdud Rinpoche.

Thank you for your response.
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Re: Is there a musical transmission in Dudjom Tersar Tröma Nakmo?

Post by Adamantine »

Dharmaswede wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:15 pm
Adamantine wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:27 am I’d agree that if you’re interested in the Dudjom Troma cycle
it’s important to find a qualified Lama and ask them.
This is sound advise, all around in Vajrayana.
Adamantine wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:27 am Different Lamas will have different styles of transmission.
Incisive observation, which prevents a lot of confusion.
Adamantine wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:27 am Generally there are more public group practices where one might pick up the melodies in that context, and more restricted ones that are intended for solitary or wandering retreats. With the latter, you’d certainly require a melody transmission or you wouldn’t know the melodies! That said, these days even those practices are shared more publicly by some. So it’s variable.
There quite a lot of recordings these days, as well. In fact, I had one Lama hinting at the possibility of giving me this empowerment, adding that I would need to learn the melodies from recordings with Chagdud Rinpoche.

Thank you for your response.
That’s funny since the melodies the way Chagdud Tulku has them in his recording are almost unrecognizable from my experience with receiving them. Also another caution about learning things that were intended to be restricted, via recordings. Not to discredit Chagdud Tulku’s melodic lineage stream. There are a lot of variations of melodies as they shift through people with different capacities with voice, breath and memory. This is why I have seen a great master appoint certain people as having the capacity to carry the melody lineage and eventually be able to transmit it. It’s not the case with most, it’s a question of capacity.
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Re: Is there a musical transmission in Dudjom Tersar Tröma Nakmo?

Post by Adamantine »

I’d like to add that two Dudjom lineage holders living in the West who are accessible and have the full capacity for sharing these transmissions and melodies that I am aware of are Khandro Kunzang Dechen Chodron based in the USA and Lama Tenzin Samphel based in France.
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Re: Is there a musical transmission in Dudjom Tersar Tröma Nakmo?

Post by Dharmaswede »

Great tips, much appreciated.
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Re: Is there a musical transmission in Dudjom Tersar Tröma Nakmo?

Post by Adamantine »

Dharmaswede wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:32 pm Great tips, much appreciated.

Oh also, there are two authentic variations of melodies at
the least with the medium length Troma Tsok, and this may also apply to the concise feast and the other feasts:

The “upper tradition” or Dudjom Troluk, most well known
among the diaspora in the Namkha Khyung Dzong lineage of
Delgyal Rinpoche (one of Dudjom Lingpa’s 13 rainbow body disciples) and the “lower tradition” which generally refers to the
continuity of the Troma transmission as given by Dudjom Lingpa’s
direct emanation, Kyabje Dudjom Rinpoche, Jigdral Yeshe Dorje... who also was known to “refine” some aspects of
his prior incarnations termas, as well as revealing his own.

It’s possible that as someone who learned the Dudjom Chod in
old Tibet, Chagdud Tulku could have learned the “upper tradition” or leaned that way with some of the melodies at least. Perhaps someone from that sangha may know more.
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Re: Is there a musical transmission in Dudjom Tersar Tröma Nakmo?

Post by pema tsultrim »

I just came across a gem this evening and wanted to share:

HH Dudjom Yangsi Sangye Pema Zhepa arranged to have recordings made of the Throma Ngondro, Four Feasts and the entire Medium Length Sadhana to be offered freely to students of Throma. You can find them here: berotsana.org/pages/free-downloads

Yangsi Rinpoche specifically asked Light of Berotsana to make the recordings available as free downloads, with the melodies that he uses. The recordings are of a male and female practitioner chanting the full practices. I suspect that the male voice is Yangsi Rinpoche but I am not sure. I am so happy because I have several recordings of different lamas chanting the feasts and ngondro (each version broadly the same, with slight yet noticeable differences) but until tonight, I did not have a recording of the Medium Length sadhana.
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Re: Is there a musical transmission in Dudjom Tersar Tröma Nakmo?

Post by Lingpupa »

pema tsultrim wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:26 am I just came across a gem this evening and wanted to share:

HH Dudjom Yangsi Sangye Pema Zhepa arranged to have recordings made of the Throma Ngondro, Four Feasts and the entire Medium Length Sadhana to be offered freely to students of Throma. You can find them here: berotsana.org/pages/free-downloads

Yangsi Rinpoche specifically asked Light of Berotsana to make the recordings available as free downloads, with the melodies that he uses. The recordings are of a male and female practitioner chanting the full practices. I suspect that the male voice is Yangsi Rinpoche but I am not sure. I am so happy because I have several recordings of different lamas chanting the feasts and ngondro (each version broadly the same, with slight yet noticeable differences) but until tonight, I did not have a recording of the Medium Length sadhana.
This is really good - thanks for this. There is a strange thing about the link, which may be caused by my browser or it may be the dharmawheel server. Just checked - same problem with a different browser, so other people may have the same problem.

What you can do is follow the link, and if you get "404 not found" as I do, edit this bit:

dharmawheel.net/

out of the address, then it should work.

In case it helps!
All the best
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Re: Is there a musical transmission in Dudjom Tersar Tröma Nakmo?

Post by Malcolm »

Adamantine wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:03 am I’d like to add that two Dudjom lineage holders living in the West who are accessible and have the full capacity for sharing these transmissions and melodies that I am aware of are Khandro Kunzang Dechen Chodron based in the USA and Lama Tenzin Samphel based in France.
You forgot Sangye Khandro.
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