What you let into your mind

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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tomschwarz
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What you let into your mind

Postby tomschwarz » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:17 pm

Hello brothers and sisters,

Monasteries and Universities all over the world keep people out. Buddhists are advised not to associate with degenerate people. And most people lock the door to their home, to separate and isolate themselves from other people. Understood.

But then, many of those monks and professors and even closed forum participants are interested in caring for strangers, even enemies.. Question, are you interested in caring for and loving all humans on the earth today? Do you let everyone into your mind? Your heart? Or are there some that are better to keep out of your mind? E.g. out if sight, out of mind....
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA

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Re: What you let into your mind

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:36 pm

tomschwarz wrote:Hello brothers and sisters,

Monasteries and Universities all over the world keep people out. Buddhists are advised not to associate with degenerate people. And most people lock the door to their home, to separate and isolate themselves from other people. Understood.

But then, many of those monks and professors and even closed forum participants are interested in caring for strangers, even enemies.. Question, are you interested in caring for and loving all humans on the earth today? Do you let everyone into your mind? Your heart? Or are there some that are better to keep out of your mind? E.g. out if sight, out of mind....



It's a question of capacity, you do what you are capable of.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

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Re: What you let into your mind

Postby boda » Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:48 pm

tomschwarz wrote:Question, are you interested in caring for and loving all humans on the earth today?

Not all humans want me to care for and love them.

Do you let everyone into your mind?

I could answer this better if I knew what you meant.

Your heart?

The heart wants what the heart wants, I don't have that much choice in that matter.

Or are there some that are better to keep out of your mind? E.g. out if sight, out of mind....

Still not sure what you mean by keeping someone in or out of my mind. Perhaps you would be kind enough to elaborate.

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Re: What you let into your mind

Postby Kim O'Hara » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:23 am

tomschwarz wrote: Do you let everyone into your mind? Your heart? Or are there some that are better to keep out of your mind? E.g. out if sight, out of mind....

You seem to be blurring two issues here: compassion (which ought to be universal) and 'spiritual friends' - associating with good people - which certainly doesn't include everyone. See, e.g., Association with the Wise by Bhikkhu Bodhi http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/bodhi/bps-essay_26.html

:namaste:
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Re: What you let into your mind

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:03 am

"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

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Re: What you let into your mind

Postby tomschwarz » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:32 am

boda wrote:Still not sure what you mean by keeping someone in or out of my mind. Perhaps you would be kind enough to elaborate.


From Kim's link
Contrary to certain psychological theories, the human mind is not a hermetically sealed chamber enclosing a personality unalterably shaped by biology and infantile experience. Rather, throughout life it remains a highly malleable entity continually remolding itself in response to its social interactions. Far from coming to our personal relationships with a fixed and immutable character, our regular and repeated social contacts implicate us in a constant process of psychological osmosis that offers precious opportunities for growth and transformation. Like living cells engaged in a chemical dialogue with their colleagues, our minds transmit and receive a steady barrage of messages and suggestions that may work profound changes even at levels below the threshold of awareness.

Particularly critical to our spiritual progress is our selection of friends and companions, who can have the most decisive impact upon our personal destiny


So here the idea is that the mind is open, so be careful what you surround it with. As for myself, I am a true blue Buddhist)))). So I actually believe that the mind has no center or edge, in other words, I put no "eggs in the basket" of separation of "self" and other. With that said, I do entertain the usefulness of "self protection", with in reason, on a conceptual level, that is clearly tied as much to suffering, as it is to anything good. But as a means to an end, for example, I support blocking the access of negative people to my young daughter. But I do not block negative people from yours truly. But I did choose to live in a peaceful country that accepts Buddhists rather than a waring one that kills them.

I agree with Johnny D. that this is really a question of capability (in generosity, discipline, patience, moral strength, meditation and wisdom). And as for those bubbling volcano "minds", I agree, a warm hug is not workable. But still, they can be "lifted from underneath " and "placed in the sun" where they will still sputter, die, and so on... but that warmth could lead to real future liberation..... I hope!
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA

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Re: What you let into your mind

Postby White Lotus » Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:54 pm

What always amazes me is my lack of compassion and reluctance to reach out to others. But all is empty and so i guess i shouldn't fret about such things. In the end i guess we do what we can. Rgds, Tom. :namaste:
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

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Re: What you let into your mind

Postby muni » Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:09 pm

placed in the sun" where they will still sputter

hmmm... :smile:
But all is empty


Lol. :smile: Yes emptiness - (inter)dependence.
http://www.tenzinzopa.com/Ebooks/Cttb_B ... mplete.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drPB75kgZ64

Rest in natural great peace this exhausted mind,
Beaten helplessly by karma and neurotic thoughts
Like the relentless fury of the pounding waves
In the infinite ocean of samsara.
Rest in natural great peace. — Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche

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Re: What you let into your mind

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:06 pm

I agree with Johnny D. that this is really a question of capability (in generosity, discipline, patience, moral strength, meditation and wisdom). And as for those bubbling volcano "minds", I agree, a warm hug is not workable. But still, they can be "lifted from underneath " and "placed in the sun" where they will still sputter, die, and so on... but that warmth could lead to real future liberation..... I hope!


Not just capability on the part of the "other", but also on the part of the practitioner, and the practitioners circumstances and limitations.

For instance, with your "Volcano mind" person, it isn't only about their afflictions, but our own. So we have to be as discerning as we can. He may be a volcano mind, but if our "help" comes from a place of pride or paternalism, that's really no better, it just keeps the cycle going. In fact, we could make his volcano erupt by being arrogant enough to try to make him "better" from our own narrow perspective. IMO one thing we should try to ditch as quickly as we can on the Bodhisattva path is that we are somehow better or more enlightened, or more capable of knowing what people's interests are than they are themselves, unless we have actual surety of that , it's a bad road. So, the big thing is being discerning about the circumstances of others, and our own capability to respond, which is completely different in every relative circumstance. Trying to force this kind of thing is the essence of what Trungpa called "idiot compassion".

I also don't think all the exhortations to avoid "bad friends" in Sutra and Sutta are meant as excuse to constantly sit in judgement on the ethics or personalities of our acquaintances..they are a warning that if we are not careful with our relationships getting mired down in someone else's afflictions can make our own much worse. That said, when we can help, it's incumbent on us to do so..the challenge is knowing when we are actually capable, and when our efforts are likely wasteful, or even harmful.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

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Re: What you let into your mind

Postby muni » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:06 pm

As I wish to exclude some being from my caring space, I am deluded. And when I want to embrace all beings into my caring space or to love each and everyone, I am still bit deluded as well. At least since then my perception is self and other. ( Or the belief in real existing selves with inherent existence separate of my mind. ) While the second example its’ intention is great and is giving the opportunity to break through my self protecting delusions or maybe to awaken. It gives the opportunity to allow Bodhichitta to 'arise'. In any case when “other” is experienced, self is there I guess. Then we rely on appearances, phenomena only (or in other words grasping, clinging activity is there). If "we" know own nature then I guess no exclusion nor inclusion must be done since it is already naturally all-inclusive. Then help, care to awaken is made possible. But as we don’t, our care is limited and by preferences. And of course our master ( knowing nature), and so not a separate entity "sees" naturally eventually defilements or clarity. Moonreflection in water, jumps into mind. Or not mind but not other than. (Longchenpa)

Thich Nhat Hahn could express this beautifully poem call me by my true names. http://www.awakin.org/read/view.php?tid=2088
http://www.tenzinzopa.com/Ebooks/Cttb_B ... mplete.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drPB75kgZ64

Rest in natural great peace this exhausted mind,
Beaten helplessly by karma and neurotic thoughts
Like the relentless fury of the pounding waves
In the infinite ocean of samsara.
Rest in natural great peace. — Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche

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Re: What you let into your mind

Postby boda » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:44 pm

tomschwarz wrote:I support blocking the access of negative people to my young daughter. But I do not block negative people from yours truly.

This is what I mean about not being clear. The difference between you and your daughter is essentially that you can block the negativity while she may lack the ability, so you guard her from it. So it's actually the other way around. Your daughter is receptive and you block the negativity. Indeed you go so far as to block it from others, such as your daughter.

Maybe what you mean is that you simply don't fight with negative people and that you would passively withdraw from any conflict, unless they were effecting someone you cared about?

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Re: What you let into your mind

Postby tomschwarz » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:25 pm

Great poem muni ))))

Johnny I understood you, and I agreed with you. Muni is also making this point. And furthermore, I have felt it for a long time: the wisdom of sameness (natural transformation of pride). I actually believe that no one is any better or worse, smarter or dummer. And I actually believe and see in all strangers who pass me, the Buddha nature. That also relates to the wisdom of sameness.

Boda I think you are discussing sensitivity to negativity. That word "sensitivity" is very complex and can relate to past karmic guilt as well as the opposite. But more immediate is your idea to "block" negativity. Like I said above, I don't block negative people.... ....because I know how the whole thing works )))

First off, attempting to block things from entering your mind does not work (attempting to block something from entering anothers' mind can work!). I know that. The only way that I can walk away from a negative experience unharmed is to 1) take full responsibility for all that I feel as projection of my karmic energy and 2 ) care for (yes Johnny, not the idiot compassion) the people who are attacking me. That is the only way out!!!

That is why I think this is an interesting theme "what you let into your mind" because it is actually an illusion. You let everything into your mind unless you don't know about it -- that is the key, "it takes one to know one". If you are fully divested from mean-spirited competitiveness, then it is quite workable to be kind and compassionate with such a person. But if you still have this feeling, or karmic traces of this feeling, that negative energy from the other person will find a home in your mind.
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA

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Re: What you let into your mind

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:35 pm

Johnny I understood you, and I agreed with you. Muni is also making this point. And furthermore, I have felt it for a long time: the wisdom of sameness (natural transformation of pride). I actually believe that no one is any better or worse, smarter or dummer. And I actually believe and see in all strangers who pass me, the Buddha nature. That also relates to the wisdom of sameness.


That's on the ultimate level though, and interactions with others happen on the relative too, so a big part of "what we let into our mind" is dependent on whether or not we deeply know our relative conditions. Unless you are a straight up actual Bodhisattva on the bhumis, neither you nor I is capable of living entirely from an ultimate view, and knowing our limitations is a big part of answering what we should let in.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

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Re: What you let into your mind

Postby boda » Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:05 am

tomschwarz wrote:If you are fully divested from mean-spirited competitiveness, then it is quite workable to be kind and compassionate with such a person. But if you still have this feeling, or karmic traces of this feeling, that negative energy from the other person will find a home in your mind.

Competition can be friendly, so I assume you are basically talking about meanness or hate, one of the three poisons. Are you claiming to be enlightened or whatever?

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Re: What you let into your mind

Postby gescom » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:59 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Unless you are a straight up actual Bodhisattva on the bhumis, neither you nor I is capable of living entirely from an ultimate view, and knowing our limitations is a big part of answering what we should let in.


I definitely agree. There's a danger that the mindset, motivation and actions can become very egotistical. You can create more harm to yourself and others than good. This is from a beginners point of view.

There's also the idea of karmic connection with people (from past lives). Some you will naturally be able to help more than others, no matter what the difficulty or behaviour they present. Although there are so many other factors.

I like the following quote from here http://www.lotsawahouse.org/tibetan-masters/chokyi-drakpa/a-torch-for-the-path

To remain calm like a jackal in the woods, without having uprooted your disturbing emotions, speaking softly, while attachment and aversion boil inside your mind, is like the behaviour of a crane or a cat. All of this is a sign that you are under the influence of the eight worldly obsessions..


As in don't fake it. On the outside you may look okay, but the inner attachment and aversion are boiling inside your mind. So work on yourself. Protect the mind, know your limits, practice until you are ready.

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Re: What you let into your mind

Postby muni » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:23 am

I am reflecting about all these inspirations.
I think we are often over-focussing on appearances/labels guided by our ideation-thoughts as we experience our own being as a labelled appearance as well. Then we put for example those out our heart-mind, we feel not comfortable with.

Competition? In sport or when the game is known, it is ok. But even in sport there is suffering by the sadness of losing and the “happiness” of winning. The idea of competition isn’t that a bit ignorance? Casino? Lol. My medicine is better than yours, not sure how Compassion is in that way.
Ultimate is never excluding conventional as they are inseparable. They are the two truths what are actually not two, not one. Like reflections in the mirror, we cannot take the reflections (or some) out of the mirror and put them aside and the mirror does not say go away or come here. Bodhichitta is the “light” of recognizing emptiness, I guess? I think ‘those’ who are awaken need not to fall back into delusion to be able to act by the conventional; eating, sleeping, walking, dish washing, feeding the animals, going for work, going to the supermarket, make a talk about the weather, even going to watch football…and guide to awaken. If it was not possible living enlightened beings, masters must live in an Ultimate glass bell, somewhere high and far and separate from all of us. But their Wisdom-Compassion, love shines; using skills to help all.. and go to the grocery.
But in our "perceptions" they can appear as people only.
As far as I understand anything, the problem is own misperception, that allows no genuine care as it is confused perception (focus appearances/phenomena/reflections) and has therefore preferences, I guess.
http://www.tenzinzopa.com/Ebooks/Cttb_B ... mplete.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drPB75kgZ64

Rest in natural great peace this exhausted mind,
Beaten helplessly by karma and neurotic thoughts
Like the relentless fury of the pounding waves
In the infinite ocean of samsara.
Rest in natural great peace. — Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche

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Re: What you let into your mind

Postby tomschwarz » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:17 pm

muni wrote:I am reflecting about all these inspirations.
I think we are often over-focussing on appearances/labels guided by our ideation-thoughts as we experience our own being as a labelled appearance as well. Then we put for example those out our heart-mind, we feel not comfortable with.

Competition? In sport or when the game is known, it is ok. But even in sport there is suffering by the sadness of losing and the “happiness” of winning. The idea of competition isn’t that a bit ignorance? Casino? Lol. My medicine is better than yours, not sure how Compassion is in that way.
Ultimate is never excluding conventional as they are inseparable. They are the two truths what are actually not two, not one. Like reflections in the mirror, we cannot take the reflections (or some) out of the mirror and put them aside and the mirror does not say go away or come here. Bodhichitta is the “light” of recognizing emptiness, I guess? I think ‘those’ who are awaken need not to fall back into delusion to be able to act by the conventional; eating, sleeping, walking, dish washing, feeding the animals, going for work, going to the supermarket, make a talk about the weather, even going to watch football…and guide to awaken. If it was not possible living enlightened beings, masters must live in an Ultimate glass bell, somewhere high and far and separate from all of us. But their Wisdom-Compassion, love shines; using skills to help all.. and go to the grocery.
But in our "perceptions" they can appear as people only.
As far as I understand anything, the problem is own misperception, that allows no genuine care as it is confused perception (focus appearances/phenomena/reflections) and has therefore preferences, I guess.



That's how it is, thank you.

But let's put aside this wisdom for a moment and discuss who is and isn't enlightened and who has a false sense of inner peace.

In meditation, samadhi, you can actually truly let go of self protection. You can actually truly disassociate your mind with the idea "this is me", "this is my idea", "these are my boundaries ". It happens naturally when you stop thinking/words/ conceptual.


With that said let's turn to the subjects of who is enlightened, who is not, who is faking their inner peace and so on. I accept that this kind of comparison can be helpful, e.g. to pass a test, help you at work, even finding a teacher. But for progress on the path of seeing and forwards, I am certain that it is antithetical.

Why? Because actually, for example, the degree that muni, for example, has advanced on the path to enlightenment, is the degree to which he is no longer identifiable. You could still identify him just fine. You could say "he is my hero", then you could persecute him, a pattern people often follow. But if you love him (see absolute love) you would support him on his path to enlightenment. Specifically 3 doors of emptiness are:
- emptiness the thing itself (1,2)
- signlessness, the cause (3,4,5,6)
- wishlessness, the result (7,8)
1 - all things are empty
2 - absence of defining characteristics
3 - absence of origination
4 - absence of cessation
5 - absence of defilement
6 - absence of undefilement
7 - no increase
8 - no decrease


....so for those who are interested in taking Buddhism seriously, and are interested in absolute love, think about what people really need to become enlightened as you truly, sinserely understand it.
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA

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Re: What you let into your mind

Postby muni » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:05 pm

How that muni or our fellows are, how this is possible to perceive other than by being the meaning of the Buddha? Compassionate?
I don't know. If meanwhile on the path I am victim of my suspicious mind or jealousy, I will definitely not support, not rejoice for muni or any other fellow who feels not near to me. And this keeps inner peace, Absolute Love far away, hidden, as grasping/clinging is then blurring.

One thing I maybe have learned is that the more I am focussed on others to see their faults, the more there is actually suffering. While discovering own faults, by looking within, peace seems to have a chance.

Our Masters/Buddha Nature is Love which is impartial, does not divide, supports in accordance what is necessary.

stop thinking/words/ conceptual.


:meditate: :alien:
http://www.tenzinzopa.com/Ebooks/Cttb_B ... mplete.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drPB75kgZ64

Rest in natural great peace this exhausted mind,
Beaten helplessly by karma and neurotic thoughts
Like the relentless fury of the pounding waves
In the infinite ocean of samsara.
Rest in natural great peace. — Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche

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Re: What you let into your mind

Postby White Lotus » Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:06 pm

Can you stop thinking? Arnt all views already empty? If we try to stop thinking we suffer from Dharma sickness. Everything is compassion since everything is empty. Views or no views all is empty. This is having compassion for views. :smile:
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

muni
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Re: What you let into your mind

Postby muni » Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:29 pm

You could say "he is my hero", then you could persecute him, a pattern people often follow.

Yes. This by the idea of self and other, as this is samsara. And from this idea these patterns are then created.

One who is less than other is delusion.
One who is better than other is delusion.
One who is equal as other is delusion. Buddha

Can you stop thinking?


Grasping first thought is I, following grasped thoughts are others and views and... Thoughts have no any power when they are not grasped, are empty.

:anjali:
http://www.tenzinzopa.com/Ebooks/Cttb_B ... mplete.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drPB75kgZ64

Rest in natural great peace this exhausted mind,
Beaten helplessly by karma and neurotic thoughts
Like the relentless fury of the pounding waves
In the infinite ocean of samsara.
Rest in natural great peace. — Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche


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