Existence

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
[N.B. This is the forum that was called ‘Exploring Buddhism’. The new name simply describes it better.]
Simon E.
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Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Existence

Post by Simon E. » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:55 pm

I would suggest that “entering a state of non dual consciousness” implies a variety of eternalism.
I know nothing. This is not false modesty.

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kirtu
Former staff member
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Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Existence

Post by kirtu » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:55 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:55 pm
I would suggest that “entering a state of non dual consciousness” implies a variety of eternalism.
This is partly a language game. "Non-dual awareness/consciousness" could suggest some kind of eternalism but it doesn't have to. People are limited by language. We could have non-dual awareness of suffering for example (Kunzang Dechen Lingpa was asked by a friend what he saw when observing people and he said something like "vast suffering" [although it could have been a different response actually] but his response implied a non-duality with suffering [or liberation]).

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

muni
Posts: 4687
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Existence

Post by muni » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:34 am

That is what I glean from my teachers. Agreeing with that sentiment does not imply that I have personal experience of that. I don’t. I suspect that few of us have.
Just accepting and agreeing is not going to liberate us from the idea what we are, yes. I do not suspect, lack that capacity.

Simon is Sherlock Holmes.
:smile:

I need all the 24 hours to see the working of own mind only, its a real cinema there but it is free entry.
May I be a guard for those without one,
A guide for all who journey on the road,
May I become a boat, a raft or bridge,
For all who wish to cross the water.

Simon E.
Posts: 6102
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Existence

Post by Simon E. » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:45 am

Gnomic inscrutability is always a safe bet. People can imply realisation without stating anything overt.
Simply habitually adopting the tone of teacher will often be sufficient in a public forum.
I know nothing. This is not false modesty.

muni
Posts: 4687
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Existence

Post by muni » Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:18 am

you don't have to take any of this seriously Muni. I am not qualified to talk about these things. I have no official certificate of enlightenment. I am an ignoramus and I probably don't know what I am talking about.
:namaste:

Not sure such certificate will help at time of death, being naked without any pocket to put the paper in it, without any pocket for the scripts or pc to safe the heard words.
I am not sure it would help to tell Yama wanting to throw me on the heap of my delusions; yes but you see, Yama, I am qualified. I know.

Thanks for inspirations.
May I be a guard for those without one,
A guide for all who journey on the road,
May I become a boat, a raft or bridge,
For all who wish to cross the water.

muni
Posts: 4687
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Existence

Post by muni » Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:56 am

Gnomic inscrutability is always a safe bet. People can imply realisation without stating anything overt.
Simply habitually adopting the tone of teacher will often be sufficient in a public forum.
I love Sherlock Holmes! :smile:
May I be a guard for those without one,
A guide for all who journey on the road,
May I become a boat, a raft or bridge,
For all who wish to cross the water.

Simon E.
Posts: 6102
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Existence

Post by Simon E. » Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:19 am

Erm...Good for you? :shrug:
I know nothing. This is not false modesty.

White Lotus
Posts: 1207
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Existence

Post by White Lotus » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:26 pm

simplifying a little: in non dual awareness there is no self to be eternal. also there seems to my limited mind to be no kind of "experience" in a strange kind of way. I think we could all be deceiving ourselves or others. there is a need for sensible critique and scrutiny. One of my brothers is a big fan of Sherlock Holmes! I am a fan of Muni and tend to tremble a little whenever i see Simon around. thats good! healthy respect keeps us all in line.

best wishes, Tom x

Muni i will read you'r reply to me more carefully when my library computer system is working properly again and when i can find a computer that works properly. :anjali:
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

Simon E.
Posts: 6102
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Existence

Post by Simon E. » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:57 pm

I can assure that you have no need to be nervous of me.
I know nothing. This is not false modesty.

muni
Posts: 4687
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Existence

Post by muni » Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:36 am

tend to tremble a little whenever i see Simon around. thats good!
i have not that problem whenever I see Simon around. Heart problems is not excluded for me.

I wish White Lotus a properly computer connection. Meanwhile all of us stay in touch. :heart:
*in non dual awareness there is no self to be eternal*
*Emaho*! Then no any problem any longer! I am going to safe this for ever.

:anjali:
May I be a guard for those without one,
A guide for all who journey on the road,
May I become a boat, a raft or bridge,
For all who wish to cross the water.

muni
Posts: 4687
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Existence

Post by muni » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:06 am

Simon E. wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:57 pm
I can assure that you have no need to be nervous of me.
So very kind. :anjali:
May I be a guard for those without one,
A guide for all who journey on the road,
May I become a boat, a raft or bridge,
For all who wish to cross the water.

White Lotus
Posts: 1207
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Existence

Post by White Lotus » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:15 am

Dear Simon and Muni, nice posts, thank you! I appreciate you both. our library computer is a bit dickey at the moment, but I should be able to print out your post Muni and ponder it. so glad you have non dual awareness Muni!

dear friends, Tom x :anjali:
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

White Lotus
Posts: 1207
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Existence

Post by White Lotus » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:18 am

Dear Muni, we say that wisdom-compassion is inseperable, but can we say that duality-non duality is inseperable?

are you nothing-everything? surely 'what' is not 'who', what is 'awareness'. awareness, not nothing. sorry to be so bossy!

then again these are only words, fabrications, judgements. but words are only unhelpful from the perspective of non-duality. if duality complements non duality then fabrications can be helpful.

I don't think we can escape from words, they are naturally with us every day. thinking is natural. I would say 'just think', its all play.

what is you'r view on Tathata, suchness? do you still see things just as they are? I don't. its as if Tathata is no longer part of my awareness. there is just awareness. no object to be aware of. just awareness. and yet no absence of an object.

I hope you are well. I have read Drukpa Kunley's story. he is quite a character!

best wishes, Tom x :anjali:
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

Rinchen Samphel
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:47 am

Re: Existence

Post by Rinchen Samphel » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:26 am

muni wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:56 am
Gnomic inscrutability is always a safe bet. People can imply realisation without stating anything overt.
Simply habitually adopting the tone of teacher will often be sufficient in a public forum.
I love Sherlock Holmes! :smile:
Simon E. wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:19 am
Erm...Good for you? :shrug:
muni wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:36 am
tend to tremble a little whenever i see Simon around. thats good!
i have not that problem whenever I see Simon around. Heart problems is not excluded for me.
muni wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:06 am
Simon E. wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:57 pm

I can assure that you have no need to be nervous of me.
So very kind. :anjali:
LOL, literally, what the heck is this conversation? This is the best thing ever, i cant stop laughing, i need to visit this side of the forum more often! :rolling:

muni
Posts: 4687
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Existence

Post by muni » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:29 am

Rinchen Samphel wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:26 am
muni wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:56 am
Gnomic inscrutability is always a safe bet. People can imply realisation without stating anything overt.
Simply habitually adopting the tone of teacher will often be sufficient in a public forum.
I love Sherlock Holmes! :smile:
Simon E. wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:19 am
Erm...Good for you? :shrug:
muni wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:36 am
tend to tremble a little whenever i see Simon around. thats good!
i have not that problem whenever I see Simon around. Heart problems is not excluded for me.
muni wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:06 am
Simon E. wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:57 pm

I can assure that you have no need to be nervous of me.
So very kind. :anjali:
LOL, literally, what the heck is this conversation? This is the best thing ever, i cant stop laughing, i need to visit this side of the forum more often! :rolling:
No need to understand at all Rinchen, let there be joy. :smile:
May I be a guard for those without one,
A guide for all who journey on the road,
May I become a boat, a raft or bridge,
For all who wish to cross the water.

muni
Posts: 4687
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Existence

Post by muni » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:04 am

Dear White Lotus,
Dear Muni, we say that wisdom-compassion is inseperable, but can we say that duality-non duality is inseperable?
Yes.
are you nothing-everything? surely 'what' is not 'who', what is 'awareness'. awareness, not nothing. sorry to be so bossy!
While even *Buddha* could/did not create or change true nature, makes clear that the idea there is "one" ( Atman) going to do that is the very distraction itself, which is clouding only. If it was this would imply there is an eternal or solid entity creating nondual awareness or clear light. While Clear Light is allowing true uncreated nature, to be revealed. Perhaps, all precious dharma methods are to see in different ways fake news?
then again these are only words, fabrications, judgements. but words are only unhelpful from the perspective of non-duality. if duality complements non duality then fabrications can be helpful.
Then these words are compassion- impartial love itself in action. :hug:
I don't think we can escape from words, they are naturally with us every day. thinking is natural. I would say 'just think', its all play.
:smile:
what is you'r view on Tathata, suchness? do you still see things just as they are? I don't. its as if Tathata is no longer part of my awareness. there is just awareness. no object to be aware of. just awareness. and yet no absence of an object.
Thank you.
best wishes, Tom x :anjali:

Best wishes to you Tom x :anjali:
May I be a guard for those without one,
A guide for all who journey on the road,
May I become a boat, a raft or bridge,
For all who wish to cross the water.

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