Why doesn’t Medicine Buddha heal me?

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
[N.B. This is the forum that was called ‘Exploring Buddhism’. The new name simply describes it better.]
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Queequeg
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Re: Why doesn’t Medicine Buddha heal me?

Post by Queequeg » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:33 pm

quad wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:18 pm
Thank you Queequeg. I think that’s probably as good an answer as I will ever get.
Queequeg wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:34 pm
If you can grok this, the only efficacious Buddhist teaching now is the Buddha's body itself, stripped of interpretations and explanation. If there is any healing for you, now, that's it. This age of the Degenerate Dharma - the one wonderful thing about this from a Buddhist perspective is that this teaching of the Buddha's body will emerge and spread.
Can you elaborate on this?
There are certain classes of teachings that are said to be the direct teaching of the Buddha, not expressed in some conditioned manner. I have heard some classes of Tibetan Vajrayana fit this classification. I'm most familiar with Japanese Buddhism. These are teachings that emphasize direct encounter with "reality" - Zen, for instance, some of the Exoteric teachings of Tendai (and Esoteric/Vajrayana Tendai, though these are only taught to ordained), Nichiren. I don't know much about Shingon, but suspect they have teachings on this, though these are strictly for the ordained. I have heard, but don't know personally, that some Shin teachings convey this; I've also heard some Shugendo teachings.

Since you have a foundation in Tibetan Vajrayana, ask some of the practitioners here. I am sure they can point you in the right direction.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Queequeg
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Re: Why doesn’t Medicine Buddha heal me?

Post by Queequeg » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:44 pm

A follow up - you've been exposed to the Buddha's body all along, and certainly since you actively took up the teachings. It may not be in the form you expected, but its been there with you all along, nurturing and protecting you, leading you along the path to awakening, though you may not have quite understood how you've made progress. To describe how that works, as corny as this sounds - maybe you saw the Karate Kid? Wax on, wax off.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

quad
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Re: Why doesn’t Medicine Buddha heal me?

Post by quad » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:05 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:33 pm
quad wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:18 pm
Thank you Queequeg. I think that’s probably as good an answer as I will ever get.
Queequeg wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:34 pm
If you can grok this, the only efficacious Buddhist teaching now is the Buddha's body itself, stripped of interpretations and explanation. If there is any healing for you, now, that's it. This age of the Degenerate Dharma - the one wonderful thing about this from a Buddhist perspective is that this teaching of the Buddha's body will emerge and spread.
Can you elaborate on this?
There are certain classes of teachings that are said to be the direct teaching of the Buddha, not expressed in some conditioned manner. I have heard some classes of Tibetan Vajrayana fit this classification. I'm most familiar with Japanese Buddhism. These are teachings that emphasize direct encounter with "reality" - Zen, for instance, some of the Exoteric teachings of Tendai (and Esoteric/Vajrayana Tendai, though these are only taught to ordained), Nichiren. I don't know much about Shingon, but suspect they have teachings on this, though these are strictly for the ordained. I have heard, but don't know personally, that some Shin teachings convey this; I've also heard some Shugendo teachings.

Since you have a foundation in Tibetan Vajrayana, ask some of the practitioners here. I am sure they can point you in the right direction.
You're stating that the only efficacious teaching now is the Buddha's body itself, because we live in the dharma ending age and thus most teachings aren't suitable for us mappo-minds. Okay. I've never heard this stated like this before. I've seen a bunch of texts or commentaries talking about the efficacy of Amitabha repetition for us, not dissimilar to modern day vaishnavas saying the only effective recourse we have left is repetition of the maha-mantra. Not dissimilar to what been written about the Guru Rinpoche mantra, with regards to it's efficacy in the dharma ending age.

But I've never heard that experiencing the buddha's body itself as the most efficacious in the dharma ending age.

I'm thoroughly done with Tibetan Vajrayana. I don't trust it anymore. Too much hyperbole. Simple as that. And I don't have a lot of time left. Since it sounds like Tendai is out of the realm of possibility, you mention Zen and Nichiren as having teachings for this. You seem confident there's at least one efficacious method left for us dharma-ending-agers. What would you suggest?

Thanks for all your insights. :smile:

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Re: Why doesn’t Medicine Buddha heal me?

Post by pemachophel » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:32 pm

Quad,

Following this thread for several days now, it seems to me that you are in one of the stages of grief over your impending death, the stage of anger. If you really are drawing close to death, I would concentrate on watching your thoughts and emotions come and go in your mind and not believing/being attached to any of them. At this point, it really doesn't matter whether Medicine Buddha works or doesn't, Mahayana is a fraud, or Vajrayana is full of hyperbole. Your mind is full of anger, and that's not a good way to die. All our thoughts and emotions are total illusion. So no reason to believe or be attached to any of them.

[I live with a heart condition that could kill me at any time. In fact, two summers ago my heart stopped. Now I have a pacemaker. So this is not arm-chair philosophizing.]
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

quad
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Re: Why doesn’t Medicine Buddha heal me?

Post by quad » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:00 pm

pemachophel wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:32 pm
Quad,

Following this thread for several days now, it seems to me that you are in one of the stages of grief over your impending death, the stage of anger. If you really are drawing close to death, I would concentrate on watching your thoughts and emotions come and go in your mind and not believing/being attached to any of them. At this point, it really doesn't matter whether Medicine Buddha works or doesn't, Mahayana is a fraud, or Vajrayana is full of hyperbole. Your mind is full of anger, and that's not a good way to die. All our thoughts and emotions are total illusion. So no reason to believe or be attached to any of them.

[I live with a heart condition that could kill me at any time. In fact, two summers ago my heart stopped. Now I have a pacemaker. So this is not arm-chair philosophizing.]
Look, it's a simple as this: let's flesh out the truth. Right now I've proposed the Medicine Buddha sutra doesn't work as written. I think we can all take that at face value at this point. And if anyone disagrees with that, I frankly think they are delusional. I am living proof it doesn't work as written.

But that's neither here nor there. I wanted to know WHY it doesn't work. The best answer given, I think, is that the efficacy of this sutra is mostly lost for us in the dharma ending age. Okay. Maybe. (Boy do I wish someone had told me that 10 years ago so I didn't waste my time.) So then what IS efficacious. Because I want to test that out, whatever it is. It should be self-evident, right? A good practice should lead to good fruit.

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Re: Why doesn’t Medicine Buddha heal me?

Post by Miroku » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:12 pm

quad wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:00 pm
pemachophel wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:32 pm
Quad,

Following this thread for several days now, it seems to me that you are in one of the stages of grief over your impending death, the stage of anger. If you really are drawing close to death, I would concentrate on watching your thoughts and emotions come and go in your mind and not believing/being attached to any of them. At this point, it really doesn't matter whether Medicine Buddha works or doesn't, Mahayana is a fraud, or Vajrayana is full of hyperbole. Your mind is full of anger, and that's not a good way to die. All our thoughts and emotions are total illusion. So no reason to believe or be attached to any of them.

[I live with a heart condition that could kill me at any time. In fact, two summers ago my heart stopped. Now I have a pacemaker. So this is not arm-chair philosophizing.]
Look, it's a simple as this: let's flesh out the truth. Right now I've proposed the Medicine Buddha sutra doesn't work as written. I think we can all take that at face value at this point. And if anyone disagrees with that, I frankly think they are delusional. I am living proof it doesn't work as written.

But that's neither here nor there. I wanted to know WHY it doesn't work. The best answer given, I think, is that the efficacy of this sutra is mostly lost for us in the dharma ending age. Okay. Maybe. (Boy do I wish someone had told me that 10 years ago so I didn't waste my time.) So then what IS efficacious. Because I want to test that out, whatever it is. It should be self-evident, right? A good practice should lead to good fruit.
If you want something "scientific" try mettá practice. It is a very simple practice where you develop loving kindness towards yourself and others. It is found in the "earlies" sutras and has been put to a clinical study. And there are many psychological benefits and in geneneral helps with a feeling of happiness. Or also developing compassion in general, you can read something from HH. Dalailama on that topic. These are great on so many levels.

Other practices can be "basic" breath meditation, if your situation allows that. Or you can also try contemplating the 4 noble truths, or 4 thoughts that turn away from the samsara.

What do those practices do? Well they change the way we relate to ourselves, our lives, our surroundings, our loved ones and our so called enemies.
A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.
~ Khunu Lama Rinpoche

Even non-buddhists have many virtuous accomplishments
~ Jigten Sumgon

quad
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Re: Why doesn’t Medicine Buddha heal me?

Post by quad » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:18 pm

Miroku wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:12 pm
quad wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:00 pm
pemachophel wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:32 pm
Quad,

Following this thread for several days now, it seems to me that you are in one of the stages of grief over your impending death, the stage of anger. If you really are drawing close to death, I would concentrate on watching your thoughts and emotions come and go in your mind and not believing/being attached to any of them. At this point, it really doesn't matter whether Medicine Buddha works or doesn't, Mahayana is a fraud, or Vajrayana is full of hyperbole. Your mind is full of anger, and that's not a good way to die. All our thoughts and emotions are total illusion. So no reason to believe or be attached to any of them.

[I live with a heart condition that could kill me at any time. In fact, two summers ago my heart stopped. Now I have a pacemaker. So this is not arm-chair philosophizing.]
Look, it's a simple as this: let's flesh out the truth. Right now I've proposed the Medicine Buddha sutra doesn't work as written. I think we can all take that at face value at this point. And if anyone disagrees with that, I frankly think they are delusional. I am living proof it doesn't work as written.

But that's neither here nor there. I wanted to know WHY it doesn't work. The best answer given, I think, is that the efficacy of this sutra is mostly lost for us in the dharma ending age. Okay. Maybe. (Boy do I wish someone had told me that 10 years ago so I didn't waste my time.) So then what IS efficacious. Because I want to test that out, whatever it is. It should be self-evident, right? A good practice should lead to good fruit.
If you want something "scientific" try mettá practice. It is a very simple practice where you develop loving kindness towards yourself and others. It is found in the "earlies" sutras and has been put to a clinical study. And there are many psychological benefits and in geneneral helps with a feeling of happiness. Or also developing compassion in general, you can read something from HH. Dalailama on that topic. These are great on so many levels.

Other practices can be "basic" breath meditation, if your situation allows that. Or you can also try contemplating the 4 noble truths, or 4 thoughts that turn away from the samsara.

What do those practices do? Well they change the way we relate to ourselves, our lives, our surroundings, our loved ones and our so called enemies.
Interestingly, I spent a lot of time doing metta. Every single time it rebounded in more anger. I’ve even posted on dhammawheel about it, it seems even some monks who are more “fire types” had my exact reaction. One found a solution was to spread feelings of “metta” to every direction instead of specific things or people. Doesn’t work for me: rebound with rage every single time.

As for breath meditation, I’ve taken it all the way to the jhanas. Felt like hitting a crack pipe. And if my body and mind was capable of breath meditation, I’d do it some more. Simple because it felt so good. But breath meditation is way too destabilizing to my wind energy for me at this point.

Imo, meditation in general is dangerous when the mind is filled with anger. And in my case it seems the anger is more biological due to a complicated illness (brain tumor).

I’ve spent plenty of time contemplating the four noble truths. And the four thoughts that turn the mind. Fleeting benefit at best, for me. To each their own. Thanks for the suggestions though.

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LastLegend
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Re: Why doesn’t Medicine Buddha heal me?

Post by LastLegend » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:09 am

quad wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:18 pm
Miroku wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:12 pm
quad wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:00 pm


Look, it's a simple as this: let's flesh out the truth. Right now I've proposed the Medicine Buddha sutra doesn't work as written. I think we can all take that at face value at this point. And if anyone disagrees with that, I frankly think they are delusional. I am living proof it doesn't work as written.

But that's neither here nor there. I wanted to know WHY it doesn't work. The best answer given, I think, is that the efficacy of this sutra is mostly lost for us in the dharma ending age. Okay. Maybe. (Boy do I wish someone had told me that 10 years ago so I didn't waste my time.) So then what IS efficacious. Because I want to test that out, whatever it is. It should be self-evident, right? A good practice should lead to good fruit.
If you want something "scientific" try mettá practice. It is a very simple practice where you develop loving kindness towards yourself and others. It is found in the "earlies" sutras and has been put to a clinical study. And there are many psychological benefits and in geneneral helps with a feeling of happiness. Or also developing compassion in general, you can read something from HH. Dalailama on that topic. These are great on so many levels.

Other practices can be "basic" breath meditation, if your situation allows that. Or you can also try contemplating the 4 noble truths, or 4 thoughts that turn away from the samsara.

What do those practices do? Well they change the way we relate to ourselves, our lives, our surroundings, our loved ones and our so called enemies.
Interestingly, I spent a lot of time doing metta. Every single time it rebounded in more anger. I’ve even posted on dhammawheel about it, it seems even some monks who are more “fire types” had my exact reaction. One found a solution was to spread feelings of “metta” to every direction instead of specific things or people. Doesn’t work for me: rebound with rage every single time.

As for breath meditation, I’ve taken it all the way to the jhanas. Felt like hitting a crack pipe. And if my body and mind was capable of breath meditation, I’d do it some more. Simple because it felt so good. But breath meditation is way too destabilizing to my wind energy for me at this point.

Imo, meditation in general is dangerous when the mind is filled with anger. And in my case it seems the anger is more biological due to a complicated illness (brain tumor).

I’ve spent plenty of time contemplating the four noble truths. And the four thoughts that turn the mind. Fleeting benefit at best, for me. To each their own. Thanks for the suggestions though.
Since you suffer so much, make Great specific vows as many as you can to liberate sentient beings from whatever you are suffering from. Just do it! In Ksitigarbha Sutra, the bodhisattva was one a Brahman girl who in order to save her mother from hell had to make great vows in front of an Ancient Buddha who appears to her in a dream.
Very very clear superbly miraculously clear lol.

Interesting was told that the observer will get to a point it doesn’t know itself, yet there is the only remaining thing that knows.

quad
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Re: Why doesn’t Medicine Buddha heal me?

Post by quad » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:56 am

I'm done here.

Fortyeightvows
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Re: Why doesn’t Medicine Buddha heal me?

Post by Fortyeightvows » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:53 am

This thread should be locked now

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Re: Why doesn’t Medicine Buddha heal me?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:08 am

As the OP has said he is done, locking the thread.
His welcoming
& rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
Knowing the dustless, sorrowless state,
he discerns rightly,
has gone, beyond becoming,
to the Further Shore.

-Lokavipatti Sutta

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