catmoon wrote:I did a little reading and it appears that the current Thervada mainstream thoroughly rejects the idea of nibbana as self. It also seems to run contrary to the teachings of the Buddha in the Pali canon, so on balance it can only be regarded as an aberrant teaching held by a minority and probably flat wrong at that.
To get a rough overview all one needs to do is refer to the Wiki on Anatta, which does cover these ideas.
MN Alagaddupama sutta 22 i139 "Is what is Impermenent,SUFFERING and subject to change,FIT to be regared as thus;This is mine,this I am,THIS IS MY SELF?-----NO"
in this sutta there is shown the negative,as to say what is NOT-the-Self(Anatta) in this sutta the buddha proclaims he has the Self verse 25i139 and at the same time the Buddha puts down the idea of the "self in the world(5 Aggregates) as being permanent,everlasting,eternal,this means the "I"(self) that clings to the 5 Aggregates is false self.
he goes on to show what is NOT MY SELF that which is impermenat,suffering,and subject to change is not fit to be reagared as MY SELF,likewise that which is Permenant,Bliss/Happiness,and not subject to change is FIT to be ragarded thus:THIS IS MY SELF.
also the Buddha never said there is NO-SELF (Anatta) mean NOT-SELF or as NOT the SELF,also the references to self in the pali canon are as follows (this is not my self) (this is not self) (this is not the self) (Not self) what many Buddhist propound as Buddhist teachings is simply a mistranslation of the pali word (Anatta)
SN 22:100"In the same way, an uninstructed run-of-the-mill person regards form as: 'This is mine, this is my self, this is what I am.' He regards feeling… perception… fabrications… consciousness as: 'This is mine, this is my self, this is what I am.' If he walks, he walks right around these five clinging-aggregates. If he stands, he stands right next to these five clinging-aggregates. If he sits, he sits right next to these five clinging-aggregates. If he lies down, he lies down right next to these five clinging-aggregates. Thus one should reflect on one's mind with every moment: 'For a long time has this mind been defiled by passion, aversion, & delusion.' From the defilement of the mind are beings defiled. From the purification of the mind are beings purified.
again to drive home the meaning as you can see the Buddha didnt say there is NO SELF the Buddha made it clear the 5 Aggreagates is NOT THE SELF(NOT MY SELF)what was fit to be regarded THIS IS MY SELF can be found in
The unfashioned, the unbent,
the fermentation-free, the true, the beyond,
the subtle, the very-hard-to-see,
the ageless, permanence, the undecaying,
the featureless, non-elaboration,
peace, the deathless,
the exquisite, bliss, rest,
the ending of craving,
the wonderful, the marvelous,
the secure, security,
the unafflicted, dispassion, purity,
the island, shelter, harbor, refuge,
— SN 43.1-44
this is all from the pali Canon I havent posted the Tathagatagarbha sutra/Nirvana sutra/Queen srimala sutra that also says the same thing.
(all translation are from Bhante Bodhi)
peace and Love