12 Step recovery in Buddhism

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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narhwal90
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12 Step recovery in Buddhism

Post by narhwal90 »

I did a few different searches on this topic and didn't find any obvious threads to join in, I beg pardon if its been discussed and I didn't find it.

For context, I've been practicing in SGI since the late 80's- I've found it a good place to practice and have many friends in there. I mention this because since Feb 2014 I've been very active in 12 Step recovery (Alanon). Somehow my brain needed the lessons delivered in that way, and I was well-steeped in the 3 Poisons; I had to get up to the cliff edge with my toes curled over before I could finally begin to see and change. So I dove into the 12 Steps, pragmatically substituting my practice for the 12-Step "higher power" and getting on with it. I didn't find any discord between my practice and the 12 Steps, still don't. I worked my way through the steps as-written in the orthodox way, and got a lot of relief.

In discussing a simple substitution of practice where 12-Step says "higher power" or "God" on one of the recovery forums, some mentioned that Buddhist scholars might be hesitant to make such a pragmatic interpretation; implying some kind of fundamental incompatibility. Personally I've not had any hint of a conflict but I'm quite ignorant. I was hoping some here might comment on the subtler issues.

I've pasted below the literal steps. Briefly, a person "takes" them in order, generally in company with a sponsor (someone more experienced in the program, who has taken the steps themselves with whom a close sometimes emotionally intimate relationship is appropriate and nondestructive), but some do it other ways. I worked them with my sponsor. Some steps are taken by reading, in coversation w/ sponsor or similar- others take longer. Generally #4 and #8 are written. My written 4th step took the better part of a year to write. #1#,2,#3 for me at least were admissions, and #3 was interesting in that I was sitting in front of the gohonzon, chanting daimoku so wtf, I'll give it a try. #6,#7- to me- meant that having learned something of my character defects (anger, resentment, obsession) that I could choose to act differently. Some folks in program assert defects are removed by their diety's action others don't- I'm in the latter camp; while I keep my mind awakened- work my program, do my practice, then my mind stays clear enough to not do that stuff anymore. #11- to me- means I take my Buddhist practice seriously; do service at the community center, study etc. #12 - to me- means make my example of Buddhist and 12 Step practice show how it can change people- but I am not to evangelize.

So the folks I was conversing with on the forum called out the 1,2,3 steps as problematic from a Buddhist perspective. Personally I don't see the difficulty. My "higher power" is not a diety, its the Dharma- as a SGI guy I'd call it Myoho the mystic law. Agreed its in me, working through me- but I don't own or control it. If I dive into the 3 Poisons it'll break my a$$, if I do the reverse then things can improve === I do the work and make the choices, my higher power gives me the consequences.

Many thanks for your consideration, and I apologize for the length...


1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
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明安 Myoan
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Re: 12 Step recovery in Buddhism

Post by 明安 Myoan »

At a Zen temple I used to attend, there was an addict recovery program which used the book "Refuge Recovery: A Buddhist Path to Recovering from Addiction". I can't speak to it any more than that but hope it provides another resource if needed.
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Re: 12 Step recovery in Buddhism

Post by Fortyeightvows »

i dont know anything about these things but I do know that the japanese purelanders use what they call the naikan method to help treat addiction. i belive it has some similaritys to the 12 step you listed. it is based on examining three questions

what have others done for me?
what have i done for others?
how have I burdened others?

maybe this is of interest to you
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Re: 12 Step recovery in Buddhism

Post by Fortyeightvows »

it may also interest you to know there is also at least a few drug treatment programs run at buddhist temples in thailand.
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Re: 12 Step recovery in Buddhism

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

I'm a big fan of the 12 steps. It is generic spirituality perfectly designed for a certain type of spiritual disease--addiction.

12 step spirituality and Dharma seemingly do not have much in common at all, but there are a few things that are the same. First and foremost is that both types of spiritual practice are supposed to work. There are supposed to be results. That is remarkable. Second, they both have the idea that we are actively creating our own suffering. Third, that one's own afflicted mind is the source of the problem, and that a mind that is no longer afflicted by that problem can reliably guide us out of our own b******t.

So my thesis is that if one is well grounded in 12 step spirituality one is better situated to have a productive practice in Buddhism, particularly the Tibetan schools.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
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Re: 12 Step recovery in Buddhism

Post by Adamantine »

may be of interest: http://www.tricycle.com/blog/suffering-addiction
The Twelve Step program promises that if you stop drinking and drugging and follow the steps, you’ll get sobriety and a happier life. In Refuge Recovery you state: “The practice of these principles, which begins with accepting the reality of our addiction, will bring us to an enlightened state, an experience of wisdom and compassion and forgiveness and love for ourselves and everyone else.” Are you saying that the Refuge Recovery program promises complete realization if you commit to it fully?

Absolutely. This is Buddhism, and Buddhism teaches the potential for awakening. And in order to awaken, there has to be some suffering that inspires us to practice. The suffering of addiction is a great inspiration to lead us to the practice of awakening. The Twelve Step program is saying we can help you become normal—a worker among workers, a man among men, that sort of thing. That’s a bit like early psychology, when Freud said that the best psychology can do is transform neurotic suffering into ordinary suffering. So while some recovery perspectives say we can transform the suffering of addiction into ordinary suffering, what Buddhism is saying—and Refuge Recovery is teaching—is that we can take the suffering of addiction and turn it into a path that ends not just the suffering of addiction but all human suffering, through Buddhist awakening practices.
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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Re: 12 Step recovery in Buddhism

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

Bill W. was quite proud of the fact that the 12 steps could be done in different spiritual contexts. Specifically he mentioned Buddhism. Evidently some form of Japanese Buddhism had 12 step programs during his lifetime. I don't know which one(s).
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Fortyeightvows
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Re: 12 Step recovery in Buddhism

Post by Fortyeightvows »

maybe he was thinking of the naikan method
narhwal90
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Re: 12 Step recovery in Buddhism

Post by narhwal90 »

Thanks all.. even as early as 1939 the 2nd edition of the Big Book mentioned a list of other religions represented in AA, including Buddhism (not that anyone is required to mention their religion). Just a couple weeks ago I was on travel and went to an out-fo-town Alanon meeting and spent a while chatting with a Sikh. I've come across a handful of other SGI members who are or have been involved in 12 step- not just AA/Alanon but Narcotics Anon etc.

An interesting side-effect of serious application of the 12-Step procedure was to get me to take my Buddhist practice a whole lot more seriously and bet my recovery on it. I know the SGI is notorious for pushing the "benefit" language- I agree- but I also found when things got serious that having a mindset focused on doing the practice to get the results makes the choice to act more obvious.
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Re: 12 Step recovery in Buddhism

Post by SeeLion »

Personally, I have mixed feelings about the 12 Steps. Some people seem to find them helpful and I respect that, which made me curious, but it's not clear to me why that would be the case.

Reading behind the lines, there seems to be sort of surrender implied.

Where does one get the oomph to achieve that ? As in "turn our will and our lives over to the care of God ".

Most people I know don't have such oomph.

I would expect to find such oomph only in somebody with a deep and regular religious practice. Which person probably wouldn't find it difficult to deal with addiction anyway.

---
And if anybody would be kind enough to answer, how is relapse dealt with in this context (of maintaining the oomph).

I apologize if I'm sounding negative, if I put my self in the 12 step shoes and experience a relapse, I'd have to ask myself if God changed his mind about being helpful. So the question would be - how to work around that ?
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Re: 12 Step recovery in Buddhism

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

SeeLion wrote: Reading behind the lines, there seems to be sort of surrender implied.
Yes.
Where does one get the oomph to achieve that ? As in "turn our will and our lives over to the care of God ".

Most people I know don't have such oomph.

I would expect to find such oomph only in somebody with a deep and regular religious practice. Which person probably wouldn't find it difficult to deal with addiction anyway.
No, actually most people in recovery were anti-spiritual/religion before having a substance abuse problem. And interestingly alcoholism is prevalent among priests, who have to apply themselves to the program to get sober. It's not a matter of what you believe so much as how you implement yourself in those beliefs.

Basically the whole thing is predicated on the understanding that "doing it my way", specifically in terms of intoxicants, has created a painful enough situation so that it is impossible to continue. Willpower has perversely compelled you to do things against your own self-interest, and thus there is a "letting go" of self-will. You can think of it as being related to the Greek drama idea of the tragic hero. They have created their own downfall, and seeing that they "let go" and face their fate with a new stature. All substance abusers have similarly created their own downfall with substance abuse, however the "letting go" does not result in immediate new stature. Becoming reasonable and having an open mind to direction is the best that can be hoped for, not heroic status.

The parallel in Dharma is the 1st Noble Truth and renunciation. If you really take it to heart the hopelessness of lasting happiness in samsaric/incarnate life forces one to "let go" also. However on the Shravakayana level nothing is offered as a better alternative except cessation. This is akin to the addict seeing that their addiction is hopelessly unworkable. It is a wholesale rejection of the source of the problem.

The "12 Steps and 12 Traditions" book has a section on the problems of a modern person to have an open mind about religion. I could cut and paste it here and it would be 100% applicable, except that without the painful emergency that is an addict bottoming out there is no willingness to have an open mind.
And if anybody would be kind enough to answer, how is relapse dealt with in this context (of maintaining the oomph).
Pain is a great motivator, which is how Sakyamuni predicates his teachings.
I apologize if I'm sounding negative, if I put my self in the 12 step shoes and experience a relapse, I'd have to ask myself if God changed his mind about being helpful. So the question would be - how to work around that ?
There's no getting comfortable and resting on your laurels with you spiritual practice. I met a woman that was a reformed heroin addict that was in constant pain from a medical problem. She refused to take opioids because of fear of relapse. She said, "I don't have 20 years of sobriety, I've only got today."
Last edited by Schrödinger’s Yidam on Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
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Re: 12 Step recovery in Buddhism

Post by Caodemarte »

I don't think anyone, including the founders, claims to know how 12 step progams work, just that they have a much better record than other programs so results win over lack of theory.

Although "higher power" is not a problem as it could mean fate, karma, Amida Buddha, etc. and the distinction between self and other is pretty nebulous in Buddhism, there are several addiction groups at temples, Zen centers, etc. that use a specifically Buddhist context and vocabulary for those more comfortable with that in what sounds like a 12 step program.
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Re: 12 Step recovery in Buddhism

Post by narhwal90 »

Though I didn't come in with the chemical addiction, I identified quite a lot with some of the mental/emotional/spiritual addict attitudes, which strengthened my resolve considerably to practice the 12 Step work for realsies. In retrospect I can see quite a lot of the negative karma I was generating, cancelling out the positive; resentment and anger, obsession etc. That stuff ended leading me out of my Buddhist practice- I never stopped chanting but I opted out of the community (won't say Sangha out of respect for others' definitions) but did not substitute anything else. So I was just chugging on alone, but not because the community was somehow lacking but out of plain old selfishness on my part; being involved with them could cut into my spare time. It didn't help that SGI is always trying to train leaders from the membership, anyone who is not able to refuse is encouraged into service positions, which aren't horrible and can do good, but for someone like me who has a tendency to people-please then I tend to end up overcommitted and resentful. It took the Alanon surrender, on the basis of the intolerable emotional & mental anguish, to get me back into the SGI strongly enforcing my comfort level. I've seen it said that a Buddhist practice needs an existential crisis for it to become real, which is the case for me. Back in the day I never had occasion to take the Vows at the Shoshu temple we have around here (this being before the SGI/Nicherin Shoshu split) though others did I'm sure, but in a number of respects adopting the 12-Steps & 12-Traditions and living them is very similar.

My sponsor is Catholic, we've chatted a little on the religion topic. He finds Buddhism puzzling but interesting, this is the first time I've been able to see closely the personal transformations that Christianity can accomplish. Thankfully the very different religious backgrounds don't get in the way at all.
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Re: 12 Step recovery in Buddhism

Post by SeeLion »

Ok, so if I understand correctly, the first prerequisite for the 12 Steps is complete loss of self-confidence.

And presumably, if there is still some self-confidence and/or hope lingering, it is part of the 1st step to crush that aswell.

No, actually most people in recovery were anti-spiritual/religion
Now, I'm lost at step 2. In the absence of pre-existing faith, why would somebody believe that a higher power is willing to help ? Instead of quitting the program at step 1.

No, actually most people in recovery were anti-spiritual/religion before having a substance abuse problem. And interestingly alcoholism is prevalent among priests, who have to apply themselves to the program to get sober. It's not a matter of what you believe so much as how you implement yourself in those beliefs.
Yes, implementation is essential, this is why I said "religious practice" and not "religious beliefs".

That is probably a weird situation, where a priest needs to join 12 Steps to make God listen to his prayers on staying sober.
Although "higher power" is not a problem as it could mean fate, karma, Amida Buddha, etc. and the distinction between self and other is pretty nebulous in Buddhism
It is a problem for me, God or high beings have power. So basically my question is - if you don't believe that "other" has power, what do you do ?
narhwal90
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Re: 12 Step recovery in Buddhism

Post by narhwal90 »

Ok, so if I understand correctly, the first prerequisite for the 12 Steps is complete loss of self-confidence.

And presumably, if there is still some self-confidence and/or hope lingering, it is part of the 1st step to crush that aswell.
Thats actually a very important point- AA suggests that some addicts need to get to a point where they deeply realize they can't keep using, and they can't stop using. Generally at that point things are very messy & sordid, AA calls that the "low bottom". But not everyone has to come in beaten down that low- sometimes that realization happens earlier- that being a "higher bottom"- but the key is acceptance that things just can't go on like this anymore. Then the subsequent steps start making the change happen.

No, actually most people in recovery were anti-spiritual/religion
Now, I'm lost at step 2. In the absence of pre-existing faith, why would somebody believe that a higher power is willing to help ? Instead of quitting the program at step 1.
Some do quit. There is a lot of encouragement in the fellowship to develop or adopt some concept of a higher power that works for the individual. As expedients, some adopt things like "the fellowship (and the steps)" on the strength of the witnessing other's recovery, sometimes someone will say "if you don't have a higher power, use mine". The idea is to initially use anything that the newcomer finds helpful, at this point they're likely working with other members (hopefully a sponsor), trying to help them develop or adopt some kind of more robust and intimate faith in whatever works for them. Some people come in with a strong faith they're happy with so #2 isn't a big deal- they just get serious. Others have to overcome bad experiences with religion (and the confusion between religion and faith). Others may convert from one faith to another, following the higher power which works for them. Personally I only know a few who seem to use the fellowship as a higher power, though a fair # of people who have used it to get started.

No, actually most people in recovery were anti-spiritual/religion before having a substance abuse problem. And interestingly alcoholism is prevalent among priests, who have to apply themselves to the program to get sober. It's not a matter of what you believe so much as how you implement yourself in those beliefs.
Yes, implementation is essential, this is why I said "religious practice" and not "religious beliefs".

That is probably a weird situation, where a priest needs to join 12 Steps to make God listen to his prayers on staying sober.
There are a number of stories told by recovering priests- catholic and othersise. I've not heard a recording yet from an alcoholic/addict buddhist monk but it wouldn't surprise me if they're out there. The Catholic church operates recovery centers for addicted priests- that kind of thing may complicate the recovery somewhat but the steps and evolution of recovery seem the same as for anyone else.

Although "higher power" is not a problem as it could mean fate, karma, Amida Buddha, etc. and the distinction between self and other is pretty nebulous in Buddhism
It is a problem for me, God or high beings have power. So basically my question is - if you don't believe that "other" has power, what do you do ?
You may go back out & keep using to try and suppress the despair. Some do & some of those come back later beaten up a bit more. AA proposes the beating that addiction causes people may sometimes be the only motivation that works to get them to change. In the really low cases, taking the steps may literally be a matter of life or death. There is more latitude if things aren't so bad yet, so its easy to slack off- decide not to keep doing the program work. There are some that cycle in and out- come in & do the work till they start feeling better, then go back out again. That said not everyone needs constant & intense program work, but some do- either way the choice is always theirs.
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Re: 12 Step recovery in Buddhism

Post by udawa »

Have you looked at the Saparshana sourcebook? It may be worth a look and is available for free.

http://www.buddhistrecovery.org/media/n ... cebook.htm
“The spirituality of the path of sobriety cannot be overestimated. Sincerely and genuinely practiced, sobriety for the AA practitioner involves a continuous cutting of ego-arrogance through heeding the call of a higher power. For the Buddhist practitioner, higher power might be shamatha/vipassyana practice, the teacher, the blessings of the lineage, all of the above or innumerable reference points that the buddhadharma provides for remembering the qualities of awakened mind. In any case, the pith instruction for both AA and Buddhist practitioners is the continuous cutting of arrogance and aggression, the practice of simplicity and humility, and the negation of allegiance to the ego by working for others.” (p. 152)
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Re: 12 Step recovery in Buddhism

Post by Jeff H »

In the 80s I was the live-in caretaker of a Christian church and I came to know some of the members of the 12-step groups that met there. I was very impressed with their resolve and dedication, and I read up on the 12 steps which also greatly impressed me. As I was cultivating my own Christian practice at the time, I remember thinking how powerful it would be if my church adopted 12-Step attitudes and methods for Christian ends. And I remember thinking the big difference was the disease principle. My fellow parishioners, despite teachings on “original sin”, didn’t think they were afflicted, they thought they were chosen.

Imagine my surprise when Buddhism came along with the first noble truth, explaining that, in fact, we are all deeply afflicted with an addictive disease. Then the second one that said as long as I remain ignorant about what drives me to seek self-destructive behavior I will continue to be swept helplessly along, endlessly. The answer is to surrender that ridiculous sense of self that willingly harms itself and realize change is possible – the third noble truth.

That kind of surrender is not hopelessness or a loss of self-confidence but the opposite. Confidence and hope based on that old ego-self is exactly the problem and it must go. But I can learn how to abandon that which is harmful and adopt that which is helpful, step by step – the fourth noble truth. The path requires confidence, both in the process (faith) and the application of it (self-confidence), but it must be based on something much more powerful than a puny ego. That’s where refuge comes in.
Last edited by Jeff H on Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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narhwal90
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Re: 12 Step recovery in Buddhism

Post by narhwal90 »

Thank you so much for that link! I've been on that site before but totally missed that material... will download and read.


udawa wrote:Have you looked at the Saparshana sourcebook? It may be worth a look and is available for free.

http://www.buddhistrecovery.org/media/n ... cebook.htm
“The spirituality of the path of sobriety cannot be overestimated. Sincerely and genuinely practiced, sobriety for the AA practitioner involves a continuous cutting of ego-arrogance through heeding the call of a higher power. For the Buddhist practitioner, higher power might be shamatha/vipassyana practice, the teacher, the blessings of the lineage, all of the above or innumerable reference points that the buddhadharma provides for remembering the qualities of awakened mind. In any case, the pith instruction for both AA and Buddhist practitioners is the continuous cutting of arrogance and aggression, the practice of simplicity and humility, and the negation of allegiance to the ego by working for others.” (p. 152)
D
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Re: 12 Step recovery in Buddhism

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

It is a problem for me, God or high beings have power. So basically my question is - if you don't believe that "other" has power, what do you do ?
A "higher power" in the AA context does not mean an entity that will fix things for you. If you frame the problem in terms of your own insanity being the issue, a higher power is something that isn't part of your own insanity. As such anyone that has achieved sobriety can be your "higher power". If they themselves have done it, they are more sane than you are and can show you how they did it. That's good enough.

I recommend the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions as a resource book. It covers all this exactly.

It's similar to the Shravakayana. Sakyamuni did not tell people to pray to him. He told them what they needed to do. He is a "Refuge" (higher power) that: 1. shows it can be done, and 2. has left instructions on how to do it. At this level of spirituality "faith", as is normally thought of, is not an issue at all. Just an open mind and a willingness to rely on something other than your own b.s.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
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