how to be a buddhist?

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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Tsongkhapafan
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Re: how to be a buddhist?

Post by Tsongkhapafan » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:05 pm

Going back to Tom's original question, I would say that to be a Buddhist is to practise a spiritual path that purifies your mind with the aim of attaining liberation or enlightenment. Day to day, it's about learning how to develop and maintain inner peace and meditation then deepens that experience of inner peace over time.

Eventually, your inner peace becomes permanent (which is called liberation) and through further practice this permanent inner peace becomes powerful enough to benefit each and every living beings every day, which is called enlightenment.

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Tiago Simões
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Re: how to be a buddhist?

Post by Tiago Simões » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:19 pm

boda wrote:Why? How does that work? It could just as well lead to pleasure.
Tsongkhapafan wrote:I've seen an alternative way of phrasing the Four Seals, and the second one is 'all contaminated things are the nature of suffering' - that makes more sense to me. Anything created by self-grasping ignorance is contaminated and a true suffering.
In tibetan the word for emotion in the seal is zagche, wich means "contaminated" DJKR says it himself. The goal of buddhism is to go beyond the concept of happiness and unhappiness, pleasurable or unpleasurable, to go beyond the dualistic mind, to go beyond samsara. If we get attached to "this is pleasurable" or "this is unpleasurable", wouldn't it lead to pain? thats how I see it.

boda
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Re: how to be a buddhist?

Post by boda » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:46 pm

tiagolps wrote:
boda wrote:Why? How does that work? It could just as well lead to pleasure.
Tsongkhapafan wrote:I've seen an alternative way of phrasing the Four Seals, and the second one is 'all contaminated things are the nature of suffering' - that makes more sense to me. Anything created by self-grasping ignorance is contaminated and a true suffering.
In tibetan the word for emotion in the seal is zagche, wich means "contaminated" DJKR says it himself. The goal of buddhism is to go beyond the concept of happiness and unhappiness, pleasurable or unpleasurable, to go beyond the dualistic mind, to go beyond samsara. If we get attached to "this is pleasurable" or "this is unpleasurable", wouldn't it lead to pain? thats how I see it.
Attachment is a problem because of impermanence.

So what it seems to boil down to is impermanence and enlightenment beyond concepts.

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Tiago Simões
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Re: how to be a buddhist?

Post by Tiago Simões » Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:09 am

boda wrote:
tiagolps wrote:
boda wrote:Why? How does that work? It could just as well lead to pleasure.
Tsongkhapafan wrote:I've seen an alternative way of phrasing the Four Seals, and the second one is 'all contaminated things are the nature of suffering' - that makes more sense to me. Anything created by self-grasping ignorance is contaminated and a true suffering.
In tibetan the word for emotion in the seal is zagche, wich means "contaminated" DJKR says it himself. The goal of buddhism is to go beyond the concept of happiness and unhappiness, pleasurable or unpleasurable, to go beyond the dualistic mind, to go beyond samsara. If we get attached to "this is pleasurable" or "this is unpleasurable", wouldn't it lead to pain? thats how I see it.
Attachment is a problem because of impermanence.

So what it seems to boil down to is impermanence and enlightenment beyond concepts.
Sure.
If the buddha taught anything other than that, I will gladly stand corrected.

boda
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Re: how to be a buddhist?

Post by boda » Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:12 am

Yay, I'm a Buddhist. :woohoo:

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Tsongkhapafan
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Re: how to be a buddhist?

Post by Tsongkhapafan » Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:57 am

boda wrote:
tiagolps wrote:
boda wrote:Why? How does that work? It could just as well lead to pleasure.
Tsongkhapafan wrote:I've seen an alternative way of phrasing the Four Seals, and the second one is 'all contaminated things are the nature of suffering' - that makes more sense to me. Anything created by self-grasping ignorance is contaminated and a true suffering.
In tibetan the word for emotion in the seal is zagche, wich means "contaminated" DJKR says it himself. The goal of buddhism is to go beyond the concept of happiness and unhappiness, pleasurable or unpleasurable, to go beyond the dualistic mind, to go beyond samsara. If we get attached to "this is pleasurable" or "this is unpleasurable", wouldn't it lead to pain? thats how I see it.
Attachment is a problem because of impermanence.

So what it seems to boil down to is impermanence and enlightenment beyond concepts.
Attachment is a problem because of impermanence? Things are still impermanent when attachment is extinguished.

The problem with attachment is the false projection due to ignorance that pleasant objects existing outside the mind are true happiness.

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Tiago Simões
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Re: how to be a buddhist?

Post by Tiago Simões » Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:11 am

Tsongkhapafan wrote:
boda wrote:
tiagolps wrote:

In tibetan the word for emotion in the seal is zagche, wich means "contaminated" DJKR says it himself. The goal of buddhism is to go beyond the concept of happiness and unhappiness, pleasurable or unpleasurable, to go beyond the dualistic mind, to go beyond samsara. If we get attached to "this is pleasurable" or "this is unpleasurable", wouldn't it lead to pain? thats how I see it.
Attachment is a problem because of impermanence.

So what it seems to boil down to is impermanence and enlightenment beyond concepts.
Attachment is a problem because of impermanence? Things are still impermanent when attachment is extinguished.

The problem with attachment is the false projection due to ignorance that pleasant objects existing outside the mind are true happiness.
and these illusory objects are impermanent.

Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: how to be a buddhist?

Post by Karma Dondrup Tashi » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:43 am

boda wrote:I get all that except the 'all emotions are pain' part. Happiness for instance, is an emotion and is not painful. If the reasoning is that emotions are painful because they are impermanent then it is redundant, and perhaps misleading because you would be assigning an inherent quality to emotions.
Only teenagers think love is an emotion.

Anyway the opposite of pain isn't pleasure, it's boredom.

Roller coasters are fun.

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Re: how to be a buddhist?

Post by boda » Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:05 am

Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:
boda wrote:I get all that except the 'all emotions are pain' part. Happiness for instance, is an emotion and is not painful. If the reasoning is that emotions are painful because they are impermanent then it is redundant, and perhaps misleading because you would be assigning an inherent quality to emotions.
Only teenagers think love is an emotion.

Anyway the opposite of pain isn't pleasure, it's boredom.
And the opposite of pleasure?

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tomschwarz
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Re: how to be a buddhist?

Post by tomschwarz » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:07 am

There are two types of love, relative love and absolute. Relative love is conditional, also with relative love is born the idea "I want to be loved!" And "I love you more than anything in the world!"

Great question, is love suffering? Are happy easy moments suffering? Two ideas come to mind:

1 - sure we can counteract suffering (3rd and 4th noble truths) and it works! At least you can attain equinimity empathetic joy absolute love and compassion which are four immeasurables as in ha ha ha ha ho bhagavan

2- even if you are stable no anxiety no bad days no depression, and have many suffering-free hours (great accomplishment) you still might have significant suffering in terms of subconcious stress (resulting from bad karma/karmic traces) nightmares, dreams of ignorance/stress/conflict, conflicted mental states, attachment to those who you loose to change, death, your sickness and degeneration, etc...

The other love is absolute. Absolute love is an emotion? I would say no. My understanding of emotion is something you feel more in your heart, chest, saturated or concentrated in here, in me, where as absolute love is more of a light emanating energy and a relief and release from self, and evaporation from gross body. I would guess that absolute love does not cause or directly relate to the cause of suffering.
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA

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Re: how to be a buddhist?

Post by binocular » Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:36 pm

tomschwarz wrote:hello dear friends in the illusion of selfhood,
Pffft!
I think (danger :smile: ) that many on this forum talk about Buddhism but at least in the forum, do not practice it. The practice of Buddhism has three interdependent areas: ethics, meditation and wisdom. The key down falls that I see on the forum are in ethics and wisdom practice.

Do you perceive that too? Or do you disagree? If you disagree, now, or with any post, how do you do so while practising the wisdom of sameness? The ethics of generousity and patience? Or do you disagree with those practice areas of Buddhism?
According to the TOS, meta-discussion is off limits at this forum. (<-- ha!)

It's not clear whether online forums with a clause against meta-discussion can function as genuine Buddhist establishments.

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Re: how to be a buddhist?

Post by binocular » Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:40 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:You can't perceive someone's ethics on this forum, almost impossible.
Of course you can! Whenever people express their views and say "This is wrong," "That is right", "This is good", "That is bad", they are declaring their ethics.
Sometimes people are unnecessarily harsh on DW. However, plenty of times it's in response to others who are being unnecessarily preachy, condescending, and self-aggrandizing. In the end, neither is fantastic behavior, but neither is worthy of some soapbox moral condemnation either.
So much for seeing the proverbial danger in the slightest fault ...

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tomschwarz
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Re: how to be a buddhist?

Post by tomschwarz » Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:40 pm

We all make suggestions to each other on this forum. So why am I so interested in friendliness? Actually it's just the tip of the iceberg. Get this....

I have tried to know that I am dreaming when I am dreaming for 8 years. There were tiny moments where I knew that a dream was a dream, but they were short and I could count them on one hand. Then 3 weeks ago, I spent the night taking care of two old men who were in great pain. When you are in so much pain you become self centred trying anything to improve the situation. But I chose to just be nice and cater to their wishes throughout the night rather than expressing ideas about happiness in the face of suffering.

The next day when I went to sleep, I recognised that it was a dream. And for the first time I sat and meditated in my dream/sleep. This is not the first time I have seen the connection of ethics with progress on thr
the path. That is the reason I try to promote kindness and caring.

Now you can ask, why do I promote it here and not with the two old men? The answer is that I assume it will lead to positive results here and not with the two old men in great pain.
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA

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Re: how to be a buddhist?

Post by Punya » Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:53 am

Two ideas come to mind:

1 - sure we can counteract suffering (3rd and 4th noble truths) and it works! At least you can attain equinimity empathetic joy absolute love and compassion which are four immeasurables as in ha ha ha ha ho bhagavan 
2- even if you are stable no anxiety no bad days no depression, and have many suffering-free hours (great accomplishment) you still might have significant suffering in terms of subconcious stress (resulting from bad karma/karmic traces) nightmares, dreams of ignorance/stress/conflict, conflicted mental states, attachment to those who you loose to change, death, your sickness and degeneration, etc...
I don't think you are right about 2. Tom. It's what tiagolps was saying earlier about zagche meaning "contaminated". It's the mere fact of attachment and aversion. We are always doing one or the other. Imagine what it would be like to be free of that.
May the stupid meditators be awakened from the sleep of ignorance;
May the attacks of the logicians with their sophistries be vanquished.

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche in The Rain of Wisdom

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Re: how to be a buddhist?

Post by muni » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:40 am

My understanding of emotion is something you feel more in your heart, chest, saturated or concentrated in here, in me, where as absolute love is more of a light emanating energy and a relief and release from self, and evaporation from gross body. I would guess that absolute love does not cause or directly relate to the cause of suffering.
In this case I would say how to be Buddhist is not by believing to be Buddhist, but as impartial viewless view, none excluding- ALL-EMBRACING. While thoughts, emotions in me, are locking everything in boxes, boxes here and boxes there, boxes everywhere. All self-made, because being myself locked in my box, one with a tiny small hole in it to look through.

I heard once: "Insight must come from within, the change must come from within, to be able to shine/radiate OUT".
( then concepts about dissolved, I guess)

Then probably all kind of boxes have been own misperceptions only.
“We can never obtain peace in the outer world until we make peace with ourselves” H H Dalai Lama

"Relax."

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Re: how to be a buddhist?

Post by muni » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:25 am

Now you can ask, why do I promote it here and not with the two old men? The answer is that I assume it will lead to positive results here and not with the two old men in great pain.
I see no other way than trying to remain Aware. Then only care is included, I guess.
“We can never obtain peace in the outer world until we make peace with ourselves” H H Dalai Lama

"Relax."

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Re: how to be a buddhist?

Post by madhusudan » Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:01 pm

Happiness is subject to the suffering of change. Even the long life gods of the formless realm, whose lifespans are immense and who dwell in pure contentment, suffer horribly when that karma is exhausted and they fall into the lower realms.

muni
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Re: how to be a buddhist?

Post by muni » Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:37 pm

I talked about boxes made by preferences based on emotions/thoughts (grasping, clinging), the teaching on the "two truths" is clarifying it much better:
Clinging to the ordinary world, both the outer environment and the beings within it, as real is the incorrect relative. The antidote to this, such as visualizing everyone as pure deities and the environment as the pure maṇḍala palace, while at the same time considering them to be a mere illusion, is the correct relative........
http://www.lotsawahouse.org/tibetan-mas ... w-mahayana
“We can never obtain peace in the outer world until we make peace with ourselves” H H Dalai Lama

"Relax."

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Tsongkhapafan
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Re: how to be a buddhist?

Post by Tsongkhapafan » Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:07 pm

madhusudan wrote:Happiness is subject to the suffering of change. Even the long life gods of the formless realm, whose lifespans are immense and who dwell in pure contentment, suffer horribly when that karma is exhausted and they fall into the lower realms.
Doesn't this prove that it isn't real happiness? There is no happiness in samsara, even in the god realms; there is only changing suffering.

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Re: how to be a buddhist?

Post by Karma Dondrup Tashi » Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:04 pm

tomschwarz wrote:I think (danger :smile: ) that many on this forum talk about Buddhism but at least in the forum, do not practice it.
You are correct. I was just talking to someone from this forum the other day who was drinking a kale smoothie and who was not even a Buddhist.

IMHO to be a Buddhist you must surrender to everything and thus only French persons can be Buddhists.

It is also the best way to pick up women.

Also, if you have any "causes" and "personal issues" it is the best way to "raise awareness" about that.

Namaste (Hope this helps).

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