Remembering one dharma talk I heard

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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Fortyeightvows
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Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:37 am

Remembering one dharma talk I heard

Postby Fortyeightvows » Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:12 pm

We went to hear the teaching of a great master, who was giving a dharma talk once and I think there is alot of wisdom in it, I can only offer a brief summary and there is no way for an ignorant person such as myself to convey it properly. None the less...

He told a story of being out with his family and losing where the car was parked. He always put it in the same place. But when trying to find it again he knew he had put it in a different place this time because there was another car there when he arrived. He KNEW his car wasn't there and looked all over, until finally looking where he usually parks and finding the car there.
His point of the story was to never be sure. Never be to sure we know something, Never to be so sure we are correct.
I think that basiclly the teaching was that by reminding ourselves not to be so sure of everything we belive we can eventually see reality clearly.

My wife has reminded me of this dharma talk many times. As buddhist practicioners we should see that things are not exactly as they appear and that our own defilments will obscure seeing things as they are. Our understanding is often based on our defilments and clarity is hard to find. Being a practinoners is to stop thinking that we are correct and that others are wrong. This an apply to our political views as well.
Until we are enlightened we don't know what is best.

muni
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Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Remembering one dharma talk I heard

Postby muni » Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:36 pm

Fortyeightvows wrote:I think that basiclly the teaching was that by reminding ourselves not to be so sure of everything we belive we can eventually see reality clearly.


Thank you. :smile:
This reminds on believing what we think keeps wisdom hidden as said by Buddha in many ways. Stop believing thoughts, which are not ours, that itself would give wisdom and its’ compassion a chance to be. But we think we master them. In education children learn to see thoughts as very important and habitually learn to identify with them.

Meditation could be said to be the Art of Simplicity: simply sitting, simply breathing and simply being.


But to let go trust in them or let go holding on the changing chain of passing thoughts, is not easy. It is like giving up what is dearly and perhaps without 'we think', there is nihilism? Thoughts is said, can be great use but not when we identify with them, I guess.

When a rainbow appears vividly in the sky, you can see its beautiful colors, yet you could not wear as clothing or put it on as an ornament. It arises through the conjunction of various factors, but there is nothing about it that can be grasped. Likewise, thoughts that arise in the mind have no tangible existence or intrinsic solidity. There is no logical reason why thoughts, which have no substance, should have so much power over you, nor is there any reason why you should become their slave. Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche


How then can there be wisdom in believing thoughts? It then would come and go, come and go.
http://www.tenzinzopa.com/Ebooks/Cttb_B ... mplete.pdf

Rest in natural great peace this exhausted mind,
Beaten helplessly by karma and neurotic thoughts
Like the relentless fury of the pounding waves
In the infinite ocean of samsara.
Rest in natural great peace. — Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche

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Berry
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:19 am

Re: Remembering one dharma talk I heard

Postby Berry » Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:07 pm

muni wrote:In education children learn to see thoughts as very important and habitually learn to identify with them.


That's not always a bad thing, because they might need to think rationally about something - such as not talking to a strange man on the way home from school, who pops out from behind a bush and points to his penis.

muni wrote:How then can there be wisdom in believing thoughts?


If I have a thought that I will slip on a patch of ice on the pavement, it will be pretty stupid if I ignore the thought, walk on the ice and then fall on my backside.

:thinking:
Leave the polluted water of conceptual thoughts in its natural clarity. Without affirming or denying appearances, leave them as they are. When there is neither acceptance nor rejection, mind is liberated into mahāmudra.

~ Tilopa

muni
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Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Remembering one dharma talk I heard

Postby muni » Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:34 pm

Hi Berry,
Agree, thoughts are very useful in daily life, they can just be. But awareness remains hidden when we are dragged away by them ( 'we' is then a thought too). As then 'we' live in the story-movie making mind, which we believe to be truth. Such wandering mind-thoughts are completely unnecessary.

Thinking "where are my keys" or "I must take care of the child" or "calculate what I have to pay" or any rationally use, is not going to harm present awareness, no any thinking is going to harm but identifying with thoughts, holding on to them, then the movie runs as this is not using them but being conditioned by them, or we being used by them.
If I have a thought that I will slip on a patch of ice on the pavement, it will be pretty stupid if I ignore the thought, walk on the ice and then fall on my backside.


That is only useful thinking.
http://www.tenzinzopa.com/Ebooks/Cttb_B ... mplete.pdf

Rest in natural great peace this exhausted mind,
Beaten helplessly by karma and neurotic thoughts
Like the relentless fury of the pounding waves
In the infinite ocean of samsara.
Rest in natural great peace. — Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche

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Berry
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:19 am

Re: Remembering one dharma talk I heard

Postby Berry » Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:59 pm

Hi muni,

" Train yourself in being free from centre and edge.”


http://www.rinpoche.com/teachings/sustaining.htm



Bye :hi:
Leave the polluted water of conceptual thoughts in its natural clarity. Without affirming or denying appearances, leave them as they are. When there is neither acceptance nor rejection, mind is liberated into mahāmudra.

~ Tilopa

White Lotus
Posts: 1023
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Remembering one dharma talk I heard

Postby White Lotus » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:23 pm

People already see reality clearly. Just as it is. But we think lots of things about what we 'should' see or 'dont' see. Thinking is useful, but dont confuse it with seeing. Open your eyes and see; eat your breakfast and taste, listen to your music and hear, go to work and concentrate. Think...i must be careful of ice, so be careful. Life, the Universe and Everything. :)
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

muni
Posts: 4137
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Remembering one dharma talk I heard

Postby muni » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:39 am

Berry wrote:Hi muni,

" Train yourself in being free from centre and edge.”


http://www.rinpoche.com/teachings/sustaining.htm



Bye :hi:

:hi: Oh no, Lady Paldabum! The teaching for Lady Paldabum is for sure made to make me mad, so I used to think, too many times, just too many, so shut up, I thought, this takes my courage away! And other times I nodded my head as all was as “for granted, self-evident, self-explanatory” … of course! Sigh. Don’t believe it!
But it is perhaps the one necessary to stop the up and down; up beyond the clouds and next moment down again in the mists of delusions?
http://www.tenzinzopa.com/Ebooks/Cttb_B ... mplete.pdf

Rest in natural great peace this exhausted mind,
Beaten helplessly by karma and neurotic thoughts
Like the relentless fury of the pounding waves
In the infinite ocean of samsara.
Rest in natural great peace. — Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche

cjdevries
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:06 pm

Re: Remembering one dharma talk I heard

Postby cjdevries » Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:23 am

Good post. Thanks for passing on this teaching. As I consider impermanence more deeply, I have found myself waking up the last few mornings with the thought of "I don't know". I don't know the best way to help other living beings. I don't know what the best course of action for the day is going to be. This post is a reminder for me of the kind of thinking it takes to really see things clearly: letting go of all our knowing and believing in a particular way of seeing things or perceiving the world.

May we all succeed in resting in the place of not knowing.

Sādhaka
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:39 pm

Re: Remembering one dharma talk I heard

Postby Sādhaka » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:19 pm

Fortyeightvows wrote:We went to hear the teaching of a great master, who was giving a dharma talk once and I think there is alot of wisdom in it, I can only offer a brief summary and there is no way for an ignorant person such as myself to convey it properly. None the less...

He told a story of being out with his family and losing where the car was parked. He always put it in the same place. But when trying to find it again he knew he had put it in a different place this time because there was another car there when he arrived. He KNEW his car wasn't there and looked all over, until finally looking where he usually parks and finding the car there.
His point of the story was to never be sure. Never be to sure we know something, Never to be so sure we are correct.
I think that basiclly the teaching was that by reminding ourselves not to be so sure of everything we belive we can eventually see reality clearly.


Mandela Effect?


https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Frui ... w0iHw_0:51



Image

muni
Posts: 4137
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Remembering one dharma talk I heard

Postby muni » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:44 am

cjdevries wrote:
May we all succeed in resting in the place of not knowing.

:namaste:
Dito!
But how so, cjdevries?
We can think: ok fine, we can remain as stupid as can be and that’s great. Or I have to know here everything so tell me! But whether we know or we don’t know, it seems there is in both cases a temporary limitation.
We can know a lot but not that which knows. That nature is not known. Then no inner peace is. What do you think?
Before the mind what can there be than peace? Guru Rinpoche


As what you say (not knowing) seems to point to the empty mind, which is before 'our knowing about mind', and to which teachings are pointing to and is not possible to recognize by our conceptual/discursive thoughts. I think it would be suffering to try to do so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvo-CCtC3Zs
:meditate:
http://www.tenzinzopa.com/Ebooks/Cttb_B ... mplete.pdf

Rest in natural great peace this exhausted mind,
Beaten helplessly by karma and neurotic thoughts
Like the relentless fury of the pounding waves
In the infinite ocean of samsara.
Rest in natural great peace. — Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche

White Lotus
Posts: 1023
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Remembering one dharma talk I heard

Postby White Lotus » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:44 pm

If we say we don't know that is attachment to a concept and is in itself a form of knowing? :)

muni
Posts: 4137
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Remembering one dharma talk I heard

Postby muni » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:32 pm

:) http://selfdefinition.org/zen/Seung-Sah ... etters.pdf

Machik Labdrön:
When nothing whatsoever is conceptualized,
How could you possibly go astray?
Annihilate your conceptions. And rest.
http://www.tenzinzopa.com/Ebooks/Cttb_B ... mplete.pdf

Rest in natural great peace this exhausted mind,
Beaten helplessly by karma and neurotic thoughts
Like the relentless fury of the pounding waves
In the infinite ocean of samsara.
Rest in natural great peace. — Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche


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