Happiness

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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Bodhisattva_path
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Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:38 pm

Happiness

Post by Bodhisattva_path »

Hi, I was wondering, a kind of unclarity that I see that I may need a discussion or advice. Or both. So we often talk how concerned Buddhists are about human happiness, the hapiness of Buddhists themselves and their relatives, and etc. As we see happiness opposed to unhapiness or suffering. But, one huge although, people find happiness even without being Buddhists or even if they achieve it in not perfected means or even by rather unpleasant or not good means, they still are happy. And also even if we assume that after all this happiness comes from proper means, still people experience happiness depending on their intellectual, emotional levels, also age, or nationality, cultural experience, technological level even, and so on. Of course if you see someone is happy that is very good, we as Buddhists are glad, but there is something that bothers me and this is about sharing happiness. I am not even talking about examples how someone could be happy on your expense and therefor you really cannot be happy with him or her, in fact it could make you ... rather unhappy. Like if someone is making you hiddenly dirt or something like this. But lets say not even in this case. Lets say someone is happy and no mean is meant to you, but he is happy on his level, lets just say different from that or those which are suitable for you. A level that if you in fact share this happiness you level up with it, it happened to me... a few times lets say, and than you feel strange, or tired, or even very tired.

And then, my question is, to make it clearer, if we define non harm or lets say I don't want to really harm someone yet what I find happy and what makes me happy could make him miserable. Without any intention, simply for the reason something is so foreign, not understandable, or simply another level or even 'realm'. And to me what really makes someone happy could make me feel tired or distressed after all. Sometimes people react aggressive in such occasion, if another culture make them unhappy they say people from it are 'dumb', stupid and so on. Or sometimes they fear that the other culture is mean, for example people often consider aliens as mean. Just because obviously aliens wouldn't share Earthy experiences of human happiness. How do we solve such situation as your happiness makes me tired, exhausted or lowered and the responsive 'your happiness looks like you're mean'? It is simple to say, lets eradicate suffering or solve it, when there is unhappiness but what happens when two levels or realms don't really intersect? I don''t think Buddhists at all discuss this because in my view either there is a compromise that would be on the expense of someone's happiness, or not compromise, as in keeping separate the levels or realms, or the very disturbing in theoretical perspective - trying to keep both happiness levels, with the response being taken by the realms themselves, that means, intercommunication would undoubtedly distort both levels, etc.

Example, whatever you say, I think Brits were not happy in the EU. Simple as that. I know it is because of the levels of happiness and intelligent perspective, be it later explained by them for being not happy with laws, immigration or whatever. UK will still have immigration. It is that somehow Brits cannot feel harmonious in themselves in the EU, they are rather different and are more attracted or related as happiness levels to other English speaking countries like US and Canada. Much more than the EU. And so being part of and moving away changes both times the UK culture but still, as they have it inherited, it is mostly they in themselves are not being happy in the EU. It's not that they wouldn't like EU countries to be happy. In such way we are talking about preference. We insist on happiness but still two different ways to be happy or even the one is not of being very glad. Of course on the other hand there are countries who still want to join EU.

But even if we talk about simply in people's lives and minds, everybody makes decisions based on what makes him/her happy for the moment and in perspective. So, how do we care of happiness if people experience happiness in different ways?
Punya
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Re: Happiness

Post by Punya »

Happiness is such an emphemeral thing. It's fine to enjoy it at the time and rejoice that others are experiencing it, but there is no point in clinging to this emotion. It is always going to disappear. And, as you say, happiness means different things to different people.

When Buddhists say "May all beings enjoy happiness and the cause of happiness" this is not a reference to the emotion "happiness" but to the causes of true happiness.
We abide nowhere. We possess nothing.
~Chatral Rinpoche
Bodhisattva_path
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:38 pm

Re: Happiness

Post by Bodhisattva_path »

Punya wrote:When Buddhists say "May all beings enjoy happiness and the cause of happiness" this is not a reference to the emotion "happiness" but to the causes of true happiness.
Oh, thanks. It is a really nice saying and I shell keep it. Still I think it is the experience of happiness body-feelings-mind.

Thank you.
madhusudan
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Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:54 pm

Re: Happiness

Post by madhusudan »

Yes, my understanding is that the cause of happiness is virtue. It's true that different beings experience the same phenomena in different ways according to their karma, but in general it's safe to say that in the human realm most people prefer plenty to deprivation, pleasure to pain, good health to sickness, etc. - masochists and sadhus excepted.

One thing I've always wondered about is how it is said that virtue could result in rebirth as a king, a wealthy person or a god, but that's not really that great if your goal is enlightenment. What's up with that?
Bodhisattva_path
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Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:38 pm

Re: Happiness

Post by Bodhisattva_path »

madhusudan wrote:Yes, my understanding is that the cause of happiness is virtue.

One thing I've always wondered about is how it is said that virtue could result in rebirth as a king, a wealthy person or a god, but that's not really that great if your goal is enlightenment. What's up with that?
Well, mine is not. As virtues comes from responsibilities and they are often heavy.

I think Dalai Lama talks alot about gaining happiness through virtue but that's very 'seducive' way to invite more Buddhists into being such. Many virtuous persons are not happy. Following a virtue may make you tired, scrutinized, even hopeless, and very often unhappy. Of course having virtues is important but I don't believe happiness comes from them, not at all. Happiness to me is a balance, also being in a good shape, you cannot be happy if your body suffers. Or even having funny friends that makes you happy. What if you have great virtues but you are mostly alone in them. You will feel lonely. So this is happiness, balance, and also, yeah, I think good karma too, because sometimes things just look great and sometimes it is not like that.

And I don't think happiness is the same phenomena for everyone. Some people are happy to drink alkohol other to eat ice cream. But it is not the same phenomena.

What do you mean as a king? lol Do you know how many monarchies are in the world today. How can you be reborn as a king if your state is not a monarchy? The kingship tales/sutras in Buddhism originate at the time when almost most countries were kind of kingdomes. The chance is many times lesser than the old of days. Please have historical approach in reading. Or a politician? What a "bliss".

Of course there are wealthy persons and also wealth becomes bigger in the world constantly, people have more and more, even average people. Being born as a deva :thinking: , I don't know, it is a karma relief.
madhusudan
Posts: 238
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:54 pm

Re: Happiness

Post by madhusudan »

Hope this is helpful:

"How can we ensure happiness in future lifetimes? By practicing virtue with body, speech, and mind. When engendering Bodhicitta we pray, "May all sentient beings have happiness and the causes of happiness; may they be free of suffering and the causes of suffering." The cause of happiness is virtue and the cause of suffering is nonvirtue. It is therefore necessary to practice virtue and avoid unvirtuous actions to the best of our ability. Since we have the ability to choose between virtuous and unvirtuous actions, our future happiness or suffering is in our own hands. "

-Kalu Rinpoche

source: http://www.purifymind.com/RW.htm
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tomschwarz
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Re: Happiness

Post by tomschwarz »

Geat question BP. ....the answer is that we are ständig in quicksand and by that i mean your whole Mind is gasping for air in a Vakuum, and by that i mean that we are climbing, scratchung, clawing up an erroding surface to have some, albeit short, elation, albeit at anothers expense.

Then, all this talk of virtue, being nice, or a good dooer, or even b0ett0e0r, sincerely caring for another person, accepting and taking on their pain angst and fear.... that is for something else. ...this result of ethics practice, with wisdom and meditation, a.k.a. buddhism practice, delivers something more like equinimity, not boogie boogie, i got this!!! Whoohooo!!!

So there you have it my dear friend. It comes down to a choice, which is better: deep breath, to take in, to have, to achieve, to drink, to eat, some elation of "i got it!!!! Whoohoo!!!!"
Or
---- vastness of reality's expanse ----

Your choice )) tough choice.

Good luck!!!
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA
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