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Re: Emptiness nutshells

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:56 pm
by gelatinous_cube
undefineable wrote: I like what I interpret as your dualism (dual dependent origination), but have been in enough of these discussions to anticipate the unexpected - Are you referring to physical phenomena, or do you feel there are mental phenomena that are permanently inaccessible to mind?

I'm not fussed as to whether mind really did give birth to the universe (as in some Tibetan Buddhist interpretations), although it might go some way towards explaining the appearance of all this random 'stuff'.
I'm afraid I don't know anything about Tibetan Buddhism at all - the only Buddhisms I know about are Theravada and Zen, and even those I only have fairly cursory knowledge of. So this is really only my own opinion, so please interpret it as such.
undefineable wrote: Is the value of a picture determined by the qualities of the paint or by the viewer's mind?
Both!
undefineable wrote: In any case, what exactly is your vat? Is there anything on the other side of it?
The vat is all phenomena, including things like neural activity and such. The brain is your six senses. There is nothing on the other side of it, since there is no "other side" to all phenomena.

Re: Emptiness nutshells

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:58 pm
by Rick
The ultimate truth is that there is no ultimate truth.

It's a good Madhyama'koan, eh? Like an infinite loop of zero length/duration. Kinda sorta ...

Trick is to know this down to the bones. "Knowing" it intellectually doesn't go that far, except perhaps at Buddhist cocktail parties. And knowing it to the bones is a huge challenge, since what we think we know and the unity of the two truths are pretty much diametrically opposed.

No wonder this enlightenment thingie takes a while to kick in: It's a major re(de)construction project!

Re: Emptiness nutshells

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:53 pm
by seeker242
I think it was Chögyam Trungpa that said:

"Whatever you think emptiness is, that's not it"

That is my most favorite explanation! :smile:

Re: Emptiness nutshells

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:06 pm
by Rick
Good one! Trungpa dude had a way with words, in'nt?

Re: Emptiness nutshells

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:25 pm
by Lukeinaz

Re: Emptiness nutshells

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:40 pm
by Rick
Buddha emptiness nutshell:
Ananda, since it is empty of identity or anything pertaining to identity, therefore it is said that the world is empty.

Re: Emptiness nutshells

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:54 pm
by Karma Dondrup Tashi
Rick wrote:
Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:08 pm
What, for you, is emptiness … in a nutshell?
Every thing is an echo.

Every thing is a mirror.

Re: Emptiness nutshells

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:24 pm
by Rick
Shadows on the cave walls?

Re: Emptiness nutshells

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:36 pm
by smcj
Rick wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:24 pm
Shadows on the cave walls?
The previous Kalu R. liked that one.

Re: Emptiness nutshells

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:38 pm
by Karma Dondrup Tashi
Rick wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:24 pm
Shadows on the cave walls?
As long as you realize that the fire at the back of the cave and the sun outside are also merely shadows on the walls of a cave.

Re: Emptiness nutshells

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:41 pm
by Rick
All shadows, 'tis. Even the shadows.

Re: Emptiness nutshells

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:24 pm
by Queequeg
Nagarjuna has some gems...

'Whatever is dependently co-arisen
That is explained to be emptiness.
That [the label 'emptiness'], being a dependent designation,
Is itself the middle way.'

Mulamadhyamika-karika, Ch.24, Verse 18.
Tr. Garfield

Re: Emptiness nutshells

Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:05 am
by stevie
Matt J wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:32 am
How about this from Lama Shang (trans. Peter Alan Roberts):
In brief, to think that things "are" is the root of attachment to everything.
That hits the mark!

My experience is that even merely thinking 'Things are ... ' or 'Things are not ... ' [... are or are not this or that, whatever] regularly amounts to affirmation of 'things' and thus to concealment of emptiness. My 'truth' habits regularly hijack every thought that arises in my mind and every concept I am thinking intentionally. Even now that I am writing this. Candrakirti has called the fabrications of ordinary conceptuality 'Truths for a concealer.' in the context of so called 'conventional reality', the concealer being the ignorance of my ordinary mind.
And my thinking of or speaking of 'emptiness' in the same vein regularly amounts to the delusion of fabricating a view of emptiness, a fallacy Nagarjuna has warned against.