You and me

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
[N.B. This is the forum that was called ‘Exploring Buddhism’. The new name simply describes it better.]
muni
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Re: You and me

Post by muni » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:39 am

Yes. Caught in the thought-world which cannot be stopped, not edited, not rejected, not crushed (damned!); it is impossible to realize this is only movement of mind, since then it is experienced as real existences and what “I” am, what is “mine” and what is, and even or perhaps especially what is “truth”

Thoughts connecting emotions, feelings, formations, experiences become real, creating lots of realities. In immense sceneries like on the amazing Tibetan plateau, it is easier to feel as a fleeting ant with a whole fleeting cinema production in its little head.

Many realities. Then wondering, even not located, where does it all play?!
May all beings have happiness and the cause of happiness.
May they be free of suffering and the cause of suffering.
May they never be disassociated from the supreme happiness which is without suffering.
May they remain in the boundless equanimity, free from both attachment to close ones and rejection of others.

muni
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Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: You and me

Post by muni » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:34 am

...i had a dream, that i was working on being aware that i was dreaming, and not able to do it. In other words, i am laying there, sleeping, with the intention of knowing that i am dreaming, having a dream, that i am trying to know that i am dreaming, but cant do it, because, obviously, i am not dreaming, because everything is completely real, just as in waking life ))).
Strange, I had a similar dream. :smile:


Regarding realities, is it therefore guidance can be of inexpressible value? But lost in the moving, even guidance becomes part of the dream/movie, a one, coming to disturb the real movie! At least if that one doesn't please 'the reality'.

:namaste:
May all beings have happiness and the cause of happiness.
May they be free of suffering and the cause of suffering.
May they never be disassociated from the supreme happiness which is without suffering.
May they remain in the boundless equanimity, free from both attachment to close ones and rejection of others.

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tomschwarz
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Re: You and me

Post by tomschwarz » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:31 am

Supramundane wrote:i would say that currently there is something that is tempting you; you know it is wrong, but you fear you will give in to it. a dream is a way of 'acting out' our worst fears in the same way that a victim of trauma is forced to psychically act out again and again in his mind the traumatic experience in an attempt to expiate it (unsuccessfully).

...

the idea of the waffle stand suggests that it is something commercial: but the inconsistency in waffles turning to French toast is an indicator too; this is a possible arrow as well. was it the pleasure of eating or the prospect of profits (or both!) that prompted the killing?

just my two cents.
Amazing.... now its gettimg good ))). ....first off muni, xes "play" no stress, yes conceptual truth is a (an arizing fading illusion) truth. My guess, our enlightenment will build on that truth, not so much obliterate it.

Ok dear supra, first off, thank you for your great achievement in paying attention to others and the details of their experience on their terms. That is clear.

You are right, about me, and about my life, and about life in general, and about Freud. My cousin is a psychoanalyst and made this same point while visiting last weekend. ....so here is my 3 kopeyki....

Putting myself on the chopping block, yes, there is something tempting me, you are right, and i know it is wrong, again you are right. And yes it is, among other things, commercial. It is sex, violence, materialism, gluttony, facination with all things busy-minded, and general disregard for quiet mind, silent tender heartedness, caring for the aggressive, ignorant, dangerous disenfranchised people of the world (enter many of the immigrants in vienna who have no interest in the local culture/language/food/religion/clothing, gangs of Chicago's inner cities, racist country folk, etc...), etc....

So answer, i was suppose to become a monk.... ....and tgat is still in the cards ))...

So enough about me and you ))), here is a suoer interesting idea that your post higjlights: psychology/psychiatry/psychoanalysis is a super good foundation for a Buddhist practitioner: you do catharsis, free assosiation, etc..., you are better but still subject to some emotional instability, then you elevate, next step, after finding you SELF you loose it!°° that is Buddhism. So after all that self search, great foundation to know the mind, you go to the next level: ethics, meditation and wisdom. You like?
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA

muni
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Re: You and me

Post by muni » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:42 am

"play" no stress, yes conceptual truth is a (an arizing fading illusion) truth. My guess, our enlightenment will build on that truth, not so much obliterate it
I see. Yes, conceptual truth need not to be rejected and has its temporary function, it would be stupid to just reject it. Maybe like when we are sick we use medicines, do not throw them away.
And I guess simple accepting it in our hands is not enough.

The truths we think to perceive and form by our clinging, these truths by which we build our dreamlike life, dreamlike perception which is actually always changing dependent on consciousness' karmic seeing, causes and conditions, is so much fooling. At least this is my foolish experience. This then creates a chain of dreams which are seen as truths. At the end of life, what will these truths have been?

Isn’t clinging to phenomena, or what is compounded andso object for decay, what changes (like thoughts for example), and what is impermanent the illusion? It keeps a you and me as well as separate entities. And this allows no Compassion. Then there is clinging to myself and mine and this is the basis of suffering (oneself and others) by own aversion-attachment. Again I think, at the end of life, what will this have been?

This is only conceptual, by own karmic glasses.

:namaste:
May all beings have happiness and the cause of happiness.
May they be free of suffering and the cause of suffering.
May they never be disassociated from the supreme happiness which is without suffering.
May they remain in the boundless equanimity, free from both attachment to close ones and rejection of others.

muni
Posts: 4458
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: You and me

Post by muni » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:52 am

Lost in dream talking to you, thinking to have to say something!
May all beings have happiness and the cause of happiness.
May they be free of suffering and the cause of suffering.
May they never be disassociated from the supreme happiness which is without suffering.
May they remain in the boundless equanimity, free from both attachment to close ones and rejection of others.

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tomschwarz
Posts: 688
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:31 am

Re: You and me

Post by tomschwarz » Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:30 pm

muni wrote:Yes.
....
Thoughts connecting emotions, feelings, formations, experiences become real, creating lots of realities. In immense sceneries like on the amazing Tibetan plateau, it is easier to feel as a fleeting ant with a whole fleeting cinema production in its little head.

Many realities. Then wondering, even not located, where does it all play?!
Yes Muni. Very well said.

Where does it play? ....Not just Tibet, not just earth, not just our Galaxy with 100 thousand million stars (1,000,000,000,000,000)..... "play", Muni, exactly.

Emptiness "plays" everywhere. Where not? At play in the vastness of reality's expanse. That idea is the natural transformation of fundemental ignorance (without renunciation) is the pristine cognition of rnam-par snang-mdzad (skt. vairocana) :

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vairocana

This is our job now. This is our top priority. Ethics, meditation, wisdom, is all for this, to merge with (?) To become (?) to be like Vairocana. It and our minds (i think) are at play everywhere (no?). Certainly, it applies to all things, their interdependence, interaction, absolute compassion.

Speaking for myself, i want to give up my french toast, my... ...bicycle was stolen last week! In real life. And i hope they enjoy it! It is fun to ride! And may they have the fruits of any meager accomplishments that i have, to rid them of steeling karma guilt!!!!!!

BE VAIROCANA!!!!!!!!! SAMAYAMANUPALAYA!!!! FRENCH TOAST ON YOUR PLATE MUNI!!!!
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA

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tomschwarz
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Re: You and me

Post by tomschwarz » Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:50 pm

....more details, "fine print", and "how to" info (e.g. how to be like vairocana) see avatamsaka sutra, "overview" section here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatamsaka_Sutra
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA

joy&peace
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Re: You and me

Post by joy&peace » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:22 pm

Awesome thread.
Om Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate bodhi svaha

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Supramundane
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Re: You and me

Post by Supramundane » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:29 am

So enough about me and you ))), here is a suoer interesting idea that your post higjlights: psychology/psychiatry/psychoanalysis is a super good foundation for a Buddhist practitioner: you do catharsis, free assosiation, etc..., you are better but still subject to some emotional instability, then you elevate, next step, after finding you SELF you loose it!°° that is Buddhism. So after all that self search, great foundation to know the mind, you go to the next level: ethics, meditation and wisdom. You like?

sounds like a plan! thanks for the kind words, tom.

in fact, when one looks at the history of ideas, Freud is very much in line with the peeling away of the Ego, if you know what i mean; Copernicus taught us the painful truth that we are not masters of the universe; Darwin that we are not masters of the animal kingdom; Freud taught us that we are not even masters of ourselves but that the conscious mind, the Ego, is in fact like the skin of an onion compared to the Unconscious.

these are painful lessons for humanity and they show how progress is basically a sequence of revelations of our place in the universe. we are not but a speck of dust in the grand scheme of things.

on a personal level, analysis of one's dreams is one of the best ways to know yourself and surely can only be of benefit to any undertaking, whether spiritual or material! it requires great courage, however, and total honesty. same as buddhism :smile:

all the best!

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