Would you agree with this statement??

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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Tirisilex
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Would you agree with this statement??

Post by Tirisilex » Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:30 am

I've been thinkin about the phrase Form is Emptiness and Emptiness is form. I'm wondering if other Buddhists agree with this phrase: "Reality is Illusion, Illusion is Reality."

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Ayu
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Re: Would you agree with this statement??

Post by Ayu » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:59 am

Sounds a bit like "A rose is a rose is a rose" to me. :smile:
I think, the statement is correct, but the term "Reality" is misleading possibly.
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kirtu
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Re: Would you agree with this statement??

Post by kirtu » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:11 am

Tirisilex wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:30 am
I've been thinkin about the phrase Form is Emptiness and Emptiness is form. I'm wondering if other Buddhists agree with this phrase: "Reality is Illusion, Illusion is Reality."
Reality is illusion - the first part is true but it is referring to conventional, consensual reality. Illusion is Reality is not the same as Emptiness is Form. Emptiness != Illusion. Emptiness can be seen as the space where all things manifest through dependant arising (however emptiness is not exactly that space - so things manifest in space and time because they are empty and through dependant arising).

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"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: Would you agree with this statement??

Post by PuerAzaelis » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:19 pm

Tirisilex wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:30 am
"Reality is Illusion, Illusion is Reality."
No the rabbit’s horn really is sharp.
And nobody in all of Oz. No Wizard that there is or was.

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tomschwarz
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Re: Would you agree with this statement??

Post by tomschwarz » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:39 pm

Tirisilex wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:30 am
I've been thinkin about the phrase Form is Emptiness and Emptiness is form. I'm wondering if other Buddhists agree with this phrase: "Reality is Illusion, Illusion is Reality."
Train wreck. ....that bit of the dharma is actually trying to get us to quiet the mind, particularly the part that would like to slice and dice reality in a conceptual schema. Reality is an illusion is something like pop art:
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/31/c6/76/31c6 ... ne-art.jpg

This bit of the dharma is about the nature of the basic space of phenomena, which relates to interdependence and the idea that all that really exists (with stability) is dependent origination a.k.a. emptiness. That this is the only stable aspect of form.
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA

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Wayfarer
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Re: Would you agree with this statement??

Post by Wayfarer » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:52 pm

Tirisilex wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:30 am
I've been thinking about the phrase Form is Emptiness and Emptiness is form. I'm wondering if other Buddhists agree with this phrase: "Reality is Illusion, Illusion is Reality."
The idea of an illusion is only meaningful if there is reality with which to contrast it. It everything were illusion, then there would be no sense in talking about 'illusion'; illusion exists precisely because it is not what it appears, so, not real. (''Trying to make it real - compared to what?', as a song once said.)

My take is, deluded cognition takes things to be what they're not, and thereby engenders illusion. When things are seen as they are, then the illusion is dispersed. But in either case, it's the same things that are being seen. So there's no difference in what is, only in what sees it - deluded cognition is trapped by illusion where enlightened cognition is not.
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

White Lotus
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Re: Would you agree with this statement??

Post by White Lotus » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:24 pm

Firstly the mountain is just the mountain and finally the mountain is the mountain again. Return to reality. No more slogging through illusions or paddling through the sea of emptiness. Reality (Tathata) just as it is.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

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Monlam Tharchin
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Re: Would you agree with this statement??

Post by Monlam Tharchin » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:45 pm

White Lotus wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:24 pm
Firstly the mountain is just the mountain and finally the mountain is the mountain again. Return to reality. No more slogging through illusions or paddling through the sea of emptiness. Reality (Tathata) just as it is.
The root of suffering grows deeper than thought.

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Re: Would you agree with this statement??

Post by DGA » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:55 am

Tirisilex wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:30 am
I've been thinkin about the phrase Form is Emptiness and Emptiness is form. I'm wondering if other Buddhists agree with this phrase: "Reality is Illusion, Illusion is Reality."
no reality, no illusion

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Monlam Tharchin
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Re: Would you agree with this statement??

Post by Monlam Tharchin » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:46 am

Also, form and emptiness aren't opposites contradicting each other, or opposites held simultaneously in paradox. What they negate is the habituated misapprehension of phenomena, of experience, which leads to suffering and rebirth.

muni
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Re: Would you agree with this statement??

Post by muni » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:55 am

If what is real and non-real are both absent, absent from before grasping mind....then what?
Buddha said all is empty like my brain.
Let’s make a selfie!

Having meditated on love and compassion, I forgot the difference between myself and others. Yogi Milarepa.

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jkarlins
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Re: Would you agree with this statement??

Post by jkarlins » Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:27 am

I don't know if I'd agree with that

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