Is chewing Nicotine Gum to quit smoking a breach of the 5th precept?

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kimjihoon5924
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Is chewing Nicotine Gum to quit smoking a breach of the 5th precept?

Post by kimjihoon5924 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:50 am

I am currently taking 2mg nicotine gums to kick my smoking habit which has lasted for about 2 years, I know Nicotine itself is considered an 'Intoxicating substance' but just curious. :namaste:

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Re: Is chewing Nicotine Gum to quit smoking a breach of the 5th precept?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:58 pm

kimjihoon5924 wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:50 am
I am currently taking 2mg nicotine gums to kick my smoking habit which has lasted for about 2 years, I know Nicotine itself is considered an 'Intoxicating substance' but just curious. :namaste:
Smoking is not even a violation of the 5th precept by most readings I'm aware of, though it's certainly a bad idea on many other levels.

Since the fifth precept references not drinking alcohol n order to avoid heedless or mindless states, maybe that's a good test of whether or not something violates - does it make you heedless or mindless?

Regardless, taking a nicotine substitute to quit smoking is a world different from taking something with the intent to intoxicate yourself, so I cannot imagine why it would be a problem.
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muni
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Re: Is chewing Nicotine Gum to quit smoking a breach of the 5th precept?

Post by muni » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:51 am

kimjihoon5924 wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:50 am
I am currently taking 2mg nicotine gums to kick my smoking habit which has lasted for about 2 years, I know Nicotine itself is considered an 'Intoxicating substance' but just curious. :namaste:

It is the intention behind an action which determines karma, not?
I wish you lots of courage to be free from nicotine intoxications. :namaste:
Regardless, taking a nicotine substitute to quit smoking is a world different from taking something with the intent to intoxicate yourself,
Buddha said all is empty like my brain.
Let’s make a selfie!

Having meditated on love and compassion, I forgot the difference between myself and others. Yogi Milarepa.

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Re: Is chewing Nicotine Gum to quit smoking a breach of the 5th precept?

Post by Ayu » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:50 am

Trying to quit smoking is supporting the 5th precept. Nevertheless if smoking is an intoxication that concerns the 5th precept or not: the trial to leave a bad habit supports good habits and restraint already. IMO.
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Re: Is chewing Nicotine Gum to quit smoking a breach of the 5th precept?

Post by Soma999 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:34 pm

There is the form and there is the essence. What is important is the essence.

Not being intoxicated means, to it's most basic meaning, not indulging into substance that brings dullness and obstruct your being, destroy your life, and becomes an obstacle on the path.

It is much more related to intention than anything.

Some use tobacco as a medicine, some as a sacrement, and many as a recreative drug.

You use it as a kind of medicine to free yourself. It's part of the path for becoming free of addiction.

We are human. We need time, sometime we fail, we fall and we get back on our foot again. Little by little we grow.

Taking a precept to a rigid form and not understanding its essence is dogmatism and can lead to mental rigidity and suffering.

I know a teacher who completly transformed a strong precept, transcending totally its form, to embrace the meaning fully. This person only grow and gain joy through this. So i guess nature help those who understand the meaning and respect it.

But some people gain nothing of their precept because it's only a rigid form, without life - meaning. Without essence, it's useless.

And precepts have many different applications.

For exemple : not stealing. It's not only about taking stuff from someone. Malicious gossip for exemple is stealing : you steal someone's reputation, and some opportunities of this person for his future.

Not killing is not only about physical life. It's also about not killing good thoughs and intention of someone, not killing good project, not killing hope and faith of someone.

But "not killing" as to be adapted also. A country which defends itself with a good army can prevent a lot of violence and destruction. And killing mosquitoes is not a violation of the precept i would say.

Not being intoxicated is also not being intoxicated into anger, violence, lust and the "poison of group gossiping".

What is the value of not taking wine if you drink every day the wine of those conversations "ohh, he really did THAT ? Give me all the details..."

Lying is also not only about ordinary lies. Not recognising one's fault and saying we are right when we are not right, it's also lying.

By keeping common sense, everything is easier.

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Re: Is chewing Nicotine Gum to quit smoking a breach of the 5th precept?

Post by PuerAzaelis » Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:23 pm

Soma999 wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:34 pm
Not killing is not only about physical life. It's also about not killing good thoughs and intention of someone, not killing good project, not killing hope and faith of someone.
"Furthermore, as if he were to see a corpse cast away in a charnel ground — one day, two days, three days dead — bloated, livid, & festering, he applies it to this very body, 'This body, too: Such is its nature, such is its future, such its unavoidable fate' ...

"Or again, as if he were to see a corpse cast away in a charnel ground, picked at by crows, vultures, & hawks, by dogs, hyenas, & various other creatures ... a skeleton smeared with flesh & blood, connected with tendons ... a fleshless skeleton smeared with blood, connected with tendons ... a skeleton without flesh or blood, connected with tendons ... bones detached from their tendons, scattered in all directions — here a hand bone, there a foot bone, here a shin bone, there a thigh bone, here a hip bone, there a back bone, here a rib, there a breast bone, here a shoulder bone, there a neck bone, here a jaw bone, there a tooth, here a skull ... the bones whitened, somewhat like the color of shells ... piled up, more than a year old ... decomposed into a powder: He applies it to this very body, 'This body, too: Such is its nature, such is its future, such its unavoidable fate.'


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Re: Is chewing Nicotine Gum to quit smoking a breach of the 5th precept?

Post by tranides » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:49 pm

I very like Khandro Rinpoche short comment on using intoxicants:



Regards,
Luke

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