Buddhahood vs Buddhism

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
[N.B. This is the forum that was called ‘Exploring Buddhism’. The new name simply describes it better.]
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tomschwarz
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Buddhahood vs Buddhism

Post by tomschwarz » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:26 pm

Hello dear friends in the land of self definition/self expression/self differentiation, suffering,

Do you have a certain group of friends who tend to take that direction of "everything is nimanakaya" meaning everything is a physical arising of the nondiscriminating buddha body of reality? In other words all is ok as it is?

Or another group, who say "be nice", "follow the 8 fold path", practice ethics, practice meditation, practice wisdom, pee sitting down (men and women), never pee into a river, etc... ?

The first group could be thought of as Buddhahood, and the second group as Buddhism.

How do you relate to these two approaches to life? For example, there is the mind's view on the mind as Buddha nature/perfect as is; and the minds view on the mind that it must be tamed, quieted, karmic energy reduced, etc... do you like one perspective more than the other? Are you able to harmonize them? How?
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA

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jkarlins
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Re: Buddhahood vs Buddhism

Post by jkarlins » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:37 pm

I try learn from my mistakes and not get stuck doing the same things over and over. At the same time, I try to see my own strengths, and appreciate others when possible.

That's putting it politely. I don't always do that, I'm not always good at it, but that's my approach.

Jake

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: Buddhahood vs Buddhism

Post by PuerAzaelis » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:04 pm

It’s not easy making sure the two wings are the same size.

I fly in circles, I get dizzy.

The Mahayana understanding says: Wisdom without compassion is a contradiction in terms.
And nobody in all of Oz. No Wizard that there is or was.

muni
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Re: Buddhahood vs Buddhism

Post by muni » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:37 am

It’s not easy making sure the two wings are the same size.
Two Wings of the Bird of Bodhichitta: Wisdom-Compassion. Purify own mind while compassion for all beings. For spontaneous all inclusive compassion as naturally aspect.

But how when "there are so many other mind to purify first", there comes no end on these! No way!
I fly in circles. I get dizzy.
I just start another round and go clockwise to avoid accidents.
Buddha said all is empty like my brain.
Let’s make a selfie!

Having meditated on love and compassion, I forgot the difference between myself and others. Yogi Milarepa.

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tomschwarz
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Re: Buddhahood vs Buddhism

Post by tomschwarz » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:07 pm

muni wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:37 am
For spontaneous all inclusive compassion as naturally aspect.

But how when "there are so many other mind to purify first", there comes no end on these! No way!


...so here we are comparing things. I compare the absolute non differentiating buddhahood with the " this versus that" approach of buddhism. You compare bodhicitta with wisdom. Bodhicitta is the spontaneous all inclusive compassion. Wisdom is "wise" so it tends work based on a conditioned and dualistic foundation.

...and then comes the idea of balancing the two. But you do not need to. I suggest that it is better to accept the two exactly as they are.

What occured to me yesteday is that all paradoxes are human-mind creations (subjective). Because actually, everything exists exactly as it is, whether we label that a paradox or not. Scientists and spiritualists stuggle to reconcile their conflicting observations. And that is OK. But it is more at peace and more successful when based on the intention to accept everything as a foundation for further discernment.
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA

muni
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Re: Buddhahood vs Buddhism

Post by muni » Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:06 pm

tomschwarz wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:07 pm
muni wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:37 am
For spontaneous all inclusive compassion as naturally aspect.

But how when "there are so many other mind to purify first", there comes no end on these! No way!


...so here we are comparing things. I compare the absolute non differentiating buddhahood with the " this versus that" approach of buddhism. You compare bodhicitta with wisdom. Bodhicitta is the spontaneous all inclusive compassion. Wisdom is "wise" so it tends work based on a conditioned and dualistic foundation.

...and then comes the idea of balancing the two. But you do not need to. I suggest that it is better to accept the two exactly as they are.

What occured to me yesteday is that all paradoxes are human-mind creations (subjective). Because actually, everything exists exactly as it is, whether we label that a paradox or not. Scientists and spiritualists stuggle to reconcile their conflicting observations. And that is OK. But it is more at peace and more successful when based on the intention to accept everything as a foundation for further discernment.

Yes, then when the idea is there that Bodhichitta and Wisdom are two it is an idea. However, my habits have been so long time to try to purify others' mind and this habit is trained or clinging is trained and so loss of Compassion. While Buddhahood 'sees' not so others than oneself who are wrong/right/.. since there is no subject-object but Compassionate Spontaneous Nature ( to give a name) trying to help to awaken out of 'what is dreamstate'. In dreamstate there the outer world there filled with strangers, friends, wise, so and so ones; my own karmic coloured view. And this is not so as Bodhichitta-all-inclusive, not so as Nature, by which Wisdom is not an object to know by a subject, but all is subjective* so to speak, as for a language/labeling goes. (*no one no two...)
But it is more at peace and more successful when based on the intention to accept everything as a foundation for further discernment.
Can you explain what is meant here with further discernment?
Hello dear friends in the land of self definition/self expression/self differentiation, suffering,
I feel no need to differentiate, what when there is no respect for all to awaken in the way according to the possibilities? Rejecting even one single methode, discouraging by that? there are symbolic seen 84000 ways, but probably more for all kinds of beings. They are all perfect in accordance to awaken out of suffering.
Buddha said all is empty like my brain.
Let’s make a selfie!

Having meditated on love and compassion, I forgot the difference between myself and others. Yogi Milarepa.

muni
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Re: Buddhahood vs Buddhism

Post by muni » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:21 pm

But it is more at peace and more successful when based on the intention to accept everything as a foundation for further discernment.
Oh, instead of conflicts, comparisons?
Buddha said all is empty like my brain.
Let’s make a selfie!

Having meditated on love and compassion, I forgot the difference between myself and others. Yogi Milarepa.

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tomschwarz
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Re: Buddhahood vs Buddhism

Post by tomschwarz » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:01 am

muni wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:21 pm
But it is more at peace and more successful when based on the intention to accept everything as a foundation for further discernment.
Oh, instead of conflicts, comparisons?
yes, that is it. this comes up a lot on this forum (see diamond sutra, chpt 6, abandon the raft to cross the river, etc...). you wrote
Bodhichitta-all-inclusive
. bam -- that is it, buddhahood. but let's just raise our eyebrows a minute, back straight, shoulders back, heart open,
Bodhichitta-all-inclusive
... ...ok, so we accept as logical (a.k.a. we unserstand the causation of/dependent origination of) what i am writting now, what all have ever written on this forum. we include all that jihadist terrorists have ever written, and we care for them, quiet heart, warm, understanding. we include what hittler wrote, christian crusaders, some crazy child killer, a teenager who is going to kill themselves out of angst and fear of rejection/fear of failure, there are surely other planets with life, so all that they write as well we include in our absolute and unconditional love and caring heart that must, out of nessessity base itself on discernment/einsicht/проницательность of what is going on in its greater dependent origination.

You wrote
no subject-object but Compassionate Spontaneous Nature
. This is buddhahood. Clearly it is good for us, now, to try this and even to base our lives around this type of non-discriminating permeation. We must both be able to engage in dualistc thinking, to communicate with other suffering beings and make our way, and still never loose sight of the wonderful, relaxing and consoling nature of the absolute truth of interdependence, dependent origination, emptiness, no increase no decrease, and so on. You can even let someone bring yourself into some sort of debate, right/and wrong discussion and not loose site of the unconditional love and caring that is based on understanding what these suffering people are going through, and often but not always, flying blind.
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA

muni
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Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Buddhahood vs Buddhism

Post by muni » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:36 am

see diamond sutra, chpt 6
http://diamond-sutra.com/read-the-diamo ... chapter-6/

Guru Rinpoche: stop labeling.
but let's just raise our eyebrows a minute, back straight, shoulders back, heart open

We must both be able to engage in dualistc thinking, to communicate with other suffering beings and make our way, and still never loose sight of the wonderful, relaxing and consoling nature
This says as well when I is (dual is), I discriminate, and this perception is stained by own karmic view, clinging to real permanent solid existences ( the killer, my friend, tsewai lama, that one...) there is no way for Bodhichitta but own suffering.
Then there are solid existences standing by themselves, having characteristics by themselves without any interconnection of "own" consciousness ( what we think we are).
I am so thinking, in case of independence, how to communicate?

Clinging is clearly the cause of lacking Compassion, by which no consoling nature is, it is absent but aversion-attachment is blinding, causing own suffering. Consoling nature which is always, connection is always but in own delusions it is a separation. Fortunately dreams are temporary, all dreams once stop. All have the potential to awaken.

Once is said that when you want to be freed from all those who disturb or who are wrong and bad, instead of trying to slay them all, free own clinging mind and all are thereby free. Not that all are freed from suffering but own delusion would fade, by being freed from grasping to such and such ones, this and that dharma, this one opposed to that one.

Debate. On the internet I found a quote, which would immediately be a stop of all internet talk: When you are wrong admit it, when you are right be quiet.
Проницательность
I see this and think okay this is definitely Greek.
Buddha said all is empty like my brain.
Let’s make a selfie!

Having meditated on love and compassion, I forgot the difference between myself and others. Yogi Milarepa.

muni
Posts: 4301
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Buddhahood vs Buddhism

Post by muni » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:00 am

Then if there would be no communication even dualistic, then no Compassion can acting to liberate. No guidance then. While no need for that to fall into clouding confusion.

At the moment the sun is impartially shining, on what is through own karmic view the boring neighbours house and those strangers in the field. Enlightened guidance shines impartially, no karmic view.
Subhuti asked. "Manjusri, in what stage do you really abide?"
"I abide in every stage."
Subhuti asked, "Could it be that you also abide in the stage of ordinary people?"
Manjusri said, "I definitely abide in the stage of ordinary people."
Subhuti asked, "With what esoteric implication do you say so?"
"I say so because all dharmas are equal by nature."

Subhuti asked, "If all dharmas are equal, where are such dharmas as the stages of Sravakas, Pratyekabuddhas, Bodhisattvas, and Buddhas established?"
Manjusri answered, "As an illustration, consider the empty space in the ten directions. People speak of the eastern space, the southern space, the western space, the northern space, the four intermediate spaces, the space above, the space below, and so forth. Such distinctions are spoken of, although the empty space itself is devoid of distinctions. In like manner, virtuous one, the various stages are established in the ultimate emptiness of all things, although the emptiness itself is devoid of distinctions "http://buddhasutra.com/files/demonstrat ... ceivab.htm
Buddha said all is empty like my brain.
Let’s make a selfie!

Having meditated on love and compassion, I forgot the difference between myself and others. Yogi Milarepa.

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