Rebirth in everyday life

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
[N.B. This is the forum that was called ‘Exploring Buddhism’. The new name simply describes it better.]
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tomschwarz
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Re: Rebirth in everyday life

Post by tomschwarz » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:44 am


Are there actually realms through enlightened 'seeing'?
Human is tool to be able to see *the basically kindness of others*, because without
how is enlightenment possible? Even beings suffer and harm, like temporary sick confused minds, their-our nature is same as all enlightened nature, impossible to be different.
Very intresting question.... ...how do(es) enlightened being(s) relate to the realms of suffering? Let's entertain the idea that they do not relate in a direct way to the relative truth. That means, like your milerepa quote, there is no cognition of differences between people. No aggresive/sexual Sogyam Rinpoche vs realitively peaceful graceful and asexual his holiness the dalai lama, no talkative president donald trump versus kind hearted muni, etc... all the same...

Now back to the question. If we want to make reality, what shantideva wished to do, help humans end their miseries, is it better to become enlightened or to be reborn?
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA

muni
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Re: Rebirth in everyday life

Post by muni » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:16 pm

That means, like your milerepa quote, there is no cognition of differences between people. No aggresive/sexual Sogyam Rinpoche vs realitively peaceful graceful and asexual his holiness the dalai lama,
That is for me why devotion - compassion are never two labels and are actually the same. Another master said devotion for all, also sentient beings. That seems also a support, for pure view, to be possible. Then no longer slave of own delusions, discriminatations based on me-other dichotomy and the characteristics.
Now back to the question. If we want to make reality, what shantideva wished to do, help humans end their miseries, is it better to become enlightened or to be reborn?
Rebirth. To have the qualities for wisdom-compassion.
Enlightenment what it means here? Awaken, not slave by ignorance its' confusions resulting into many suffering? As other ways there would only limited help through own suffering.
Shantideva's words. I said that few times and always with kind of holy face, believing it for sure, meaning it for sure, but ...

At least now, no other way is there.
For as long as space remains,
For as long as sentient beings remain,
Until then, may I too remain
And dispel the miseries of the world.
When you recognize the essence of enlightenment is present in all sentient beings, it is effortless to develop familial affection towards them. Guru Rinpoche.

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KeithA
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Re: Rebirth in everyday life

Post by KeithA » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:59 pm

tomschwarz wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:03 pm
Hello friends,

His Holiness the Dalai Lama of Tibet said
the future life should be something meaningful, something useful to others. so that's buddhist practitioner's sort of way of thinking. so in any way, at the time of end so we really need some counseling, i think very very useful, very useful, that is taking care of our emotions, our sadness. not only the dying person himself or herself but also his or her close friends. so it is very useful
see 10:37


where would you like to be reborn, as what being, and why? how do you prepare for your own death?
Thanks for sharing this. :heart:

If I am to continue on, I just hope I find myself in a situation where I can be of more service than I have been this time around.

I am not sure about preparation for death, but I am inspired to look into ways to do so. I notice when I really consider it, I get very sad. It's a normal reaction, but it does seem that lessening the emotional suffering at the time of death is a worthy pursuit.

_/|\_

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tomschwarz
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Re: Rebirth in everyday life

Post by tomschwarz » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:44 pm

Hm. That's intense. Inspiring ....the sadness of death, i felt in meditation tonight, is near some meaningful vortex of mind: it represents the juncture of fundamental ignorance and emptiness. So as his holiness the dalai lama often mentions, surely it is very productive to consider that sadness (and greater reality of death), often.

Muni you are right, ultimately caring for others presupposes no differentiation. Thanks for helping me with that. But here is the disagreement, and a great point for debate. I would like to suggest, for discussion that enlightenment is the correct goal, not rebirth. I also believe that Shantideva could have intended this: he wishes to remain by the side of miserable humans, not that he wishes to remain in fundemental ignorance. Dont forget, even those humans who achieve enlightenment are born as suffering humans who bring suffering to others. Did Sidartha Gautama tell all those of his harem that they will find more happiness in something like Buddhism? No, he enjoyed them as harem members, no more, no less. He had a family and children and harem and surely caused quite a bit of suffering. So my point, the wish to "remain" does not contradict the wish to "go, go beyond, go way beyond..." gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha. Disagree?
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA

muni
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Re: Rebirth in everyday life

Post by muni » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:03 am

Dont forget, even those humans who achieve enlightenment are born as suffering humans who bring suffering to others.
Yes. As even human is great tool to awaken, it remains a deluded state. But then the intention right now, as Shantideva said through compassion and love and so his words, he realized no difference as self - other. Then without that, how to see the basic Goodness of all ( as Primordial), - beyond description, how is enlightenment possible? Then this intention by the words is not to take solid or literary, you clarify. As this I guess would be confusion itself.
So my point, the wish to "remain" does not contradict the wish to "go, go beyond, go way beyond..." gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha. Disagree?
I see. It would be strange to go back to deluded-suffering state in order to again realize this mistaken nature/confusion again and again. Even it can look so for example when kind of rebirth in a moment of distraction/confusion and then again to remember what is been patientfully pointed.

No disagreement and thank you, to make this clear. :anjali:
When you recognize the essence of enlightenment is present in all sentient beings, it is effortless to develop familial affection towards them. Guru Rinpoche.

muni
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Re: Rebirth in everyday life

Post by muni » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:13 am

Milarepa had no any interess in samsara at all.
http://khentrulrinpoche.com/study/inter ... n-rebirth/

If deluded stains would be inherent, no liberation would be possible and we would belief to be real halloween figures and identify with such. Even “so called lower realms” are nature as well.
Rare human birth is precious, by effect of good seeds, to go beyond.

Perhaps preparing for own death can for example by practise for not to identify with a permanent inherent independency(ies)?
"Death is merely labeled by our mind in dependence upon its base, the consciousness leaving the body. Therefore, there is no death that exists from its own side. There is no death in the sense of one that exists inherently. Its a hallucination”
When you recognize the essence of enlightenment is present in all sentient beings, it is effortless to develop familial affection towards them. Guru Rinpoche.

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