Rebirth in everyday life

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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tomschwarz
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Rebirth in everyday life

Post by tomschwarz » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:03 pm

Hello friends,

His Holiness the Dalai Lama of Tibet said
the future life should be something meaningful, something useful to others. so that's buddhist practitioner's sort of way of thinking. so in any way, at the time of end so we really need some counseling, i think very very useful, very useful, that is taking care of our emotions, our sadness. not only the dying person himself or herself but also his or her close friends. so it is very useful
see 10:37

where would you like to be reborn, as what being, and why? how do you prepare for your own death?
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA

muni
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Re: Rebirth in everyday life

Post by muni » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:24 am

Perhaps a near death experience is a key for stronger whish to be free. The love then experienced - bliss as by the dissolving nasty independent self idea causing suffering. This selfless Love as the living guiding Masters, pointing to own Love. Love is not passion, but COMpassion, which is no subject loving an object. Alas! The little recognition of this is dreamlike is fading smoothly and all is solid real by the grace of karma and earlier karma. The nondual equipoise is also temporary when after that clinging by aversion-attachment causes more harm and no altruism to open heart, open mind.
The wish that all are freed from suffering, whether this wish is genuinly or not, is very much important for own freedom, I guess?
Then to not harm intentionally in what is called the future, is my wish, other or "higher wish" is not.
Okay, not true, there is another wish, the one to recognize in the bardo that the nasty and the loving ones are own mind. When I will think: hey you there, you do not belong here, go there! Or oh help, I must escape here, see what is there! Then the ticket to samsara is made. But that wish I let be, as I see it not beneficially right now other than perhaps giving strenght.
Don’t investigate the roots of things,
Investigate the root of mind!
...
Be nothing allows anything.
“ Only the development of compassion and understanding for others can bring us the tranquility and happiness we all seek. ”
H H Dalai Lama

"Relax." nirvana-samsara do not stray from spaciousness.

muni
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Re: Rebirth in everyday life

Post by muni » Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:12 pm

There are no substantial apprehensions which can be collected and taken in a bag by the idea of self. That is why there is need for Dharma in daily life, I guess.

H H Dalai Lama was asked whether or not Bodhichitta was "accomplished", he answered death would reveal it. Bodhichitta beyond birth and death.

:heart:
“ Only the development of compassion and understanding for others can bring us the tranquility and happiness we all seek. ”
H H Dalai Lama

"Relax." nirvana-samsara do not stray from spaciousness.

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tomschwarz
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Re: Rebirth in everyday life

Post by tomschwarz » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:01 pm

Love is not passion, but COMpassion, which is no subject loving an object. Alas!
very true important. But interesting point, we should not confuse the real and absolute non-differentiated love with the very real and important dualistic and highly differentiated relationships that we have. Buddhist teacher is one, police man is another. Sex with wife is ok, with daughter not so. Also can be bad with police man. But all of those dualistic and differentiated relationships do not break down the homgenious and absolute caring of absolute love. So we must do both. And that is a general rule, e.g. we must both breath, and accept death/dying.

This man from your video is very brave )). That is good. But he is very young. It is a powerful challenge to say "i love you means go". It is a challenge to attachment and makes reference to "go beyond, go way beyond, etc"

But that is all Buddhism (antidote for suffering). I think that Buddhahood would not equate love and go. The reason is that love is simply caring with wisdom and skillfull means. And while "go" may be just what some need, others need a hug (first). Others need silent meditation. This would relate to the countless doors to liberation. But sure, with that said, "go" could work ))))))
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA

muni
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Re: Rebirth in everyday life

Post by muni » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:53 pm

This man from your video is very brave )). That is good. But he is very young. It is a powerful challenge to say "i love you means go". It is a challenge to attachment and makes reference to "go beyond, go way beyond, etc"
Thank you, in that way. H H Dalai Lama said as well on that youtube, friends and so we will lose as well at death. I see it in a way of that what we think we are and that what we think others are fade, while the conditioning of conscious stream flows.
I will remember altruism dear H H says. As it opens the door to genuine love by losing self-focus I guess.
But that is all Buddhism (antidote for suffering). I think that Buddhahood would not equate love and go. The reason is that love is simply caring with wisdom and skillfull means. And while "go" may be just what some need, others need a hug (first). Others need silent meditation. This would relate to the countless doors to liberation. But sure, with that said, "go" could work ))))))
Caring with skilful means is caring without the me and therefore with genuine care. Gratitude allows rusty habitual thought what we are, to melt in amazing Goodness ( Primordial). As i heard once that devotion for the master and aversion toward you, they, maintains own suffering and is no devotion-compassion, which is own liberating tool.
Then I cannot see how a hug would turn mind in delusion, many examples are there of genuine Love, hugs by enlightened nature ( even there is no expereince of being two, one or many). If care for a child, care for a sick or sad fellow, a hug for the old man, kindness and care to those we meet, would turn mind in delusion, then Buddha's meaning would be a cold blankness and it isn't.
“ Only the development of compassion and understanding for others can bring us the tranquility and happiness we all seek. ”
H H Dalai Lama

"Relax." nirvana-samsara do not stray from spaciousness.

muni
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Re: Rebirth in everyday life

Post by muni » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:05 pm

"From a Buddhist point of view, the actual experience of death is very important. Although how or where we will be reborn is generally dependent on karmic forces, our state of mind at the time of death can influence the quality of our next rebirth. So at the moment of death, in spite of the great variety of karmas we have accumulated, if we make a special effort to generate a virtuous state of mind, we may strengthen and activate a virtuous karma, and so bring about a happy rebirth." H H Dalai Lama
Some can think now that H H Dalai Lama only "promotes" a better next life but I do not see that so. For enlightened nature there is no thought as virtuous and not virtuous since there is no karma conditioning. But as long as not enlightened virtuous is great medicine.

I think realizing impermanence of this life is daily support and encouragement, not so much fear then. As dying is each moment.

May idea of self die in liberation.
“ Only the development of compassion and understanding for others can bring us the tranquility and happiness we all seek. ”
H H Dalai Lama

"Relax." nirvana-samsara do not stray from spaciousness.

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tomschwarz
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Re: Rebirth in everyday life

Post by tomschwarz » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:16 pm

I see it in a way of that what we think we are and that what we think others are fade, while the conditioning of conscious stream flows.
This is one of the most interesting themes to me these days. So lets consider this deeper. Lets stay in the human realm but go out of our lives. Lets go back to your parents and those parents of a person close to you. We are something like mirrors or our parents usually. Some major personal characteristics we take from them. Often very bad things. Where did those bad things come from? Were your parents and your friends parents once innocent children? When did they become partly evil?
...they were tainted by the evil of their parents, and so on. So there is a generational wave of innocence to evil. Then go back 1 thousand, 2 thousand or 100 thousand generations, like octopus tenticles extending from your heart into the horrizon. Those are the 100s of thousands of lives that generally, simply repeated the cycle of innocents to evil. The idividuals fade completely but the process remains pristine, unchanging, human suffering.

Of course this is not rebirth, simply birth. But interesting to think about....
Then I cannot see how a hug would turn mind in delusion, many examples are there of genuine Love, hugs by enlightened nature ( even there is no expereince of being two, one or many). If care for a child, care for a sick or sad fellow, a hug for the old man, kindness and care to those we meet, would turn mind in delusion.
First off, clearly we both have discovered the final solution of selflessness. I am very very happy for you Muni. It is wonderful how the puzzle of life becomes easier to solve after we give up any notion of achievement in our name/being.

Second question, what do you mean by "would turn mind in delusion"? Do you mean show the mind its delusions?

My point about hugs is... ...lets fast forward to Buddhahood, we permiate all things without descrimination. You are now in Syria. There are two men both completely overrun with fear anxiety and aggression. One is a radical Muslim Soldier of Islam. The other is a right wing American who believes in Bikinis beer and freedom. They are at war with eachother and children are dying as a result (dont forget the tenticles above). Here the level of delusion aggression and violence is so high... ...consider the muslim, raping raping trying to build the Isis-man-state, with his curly dark hair, stinking of BO, seeking endless maskulinization ideal. a hug from you, a consideration like a mother, a warm hand on his cheak, as a seed....

Then the American so lost in the pride of his patriotism, he justifies the death of 100k in a land that is sovereign and not his. The enormity of the disrespect and negative action creates a black tar that seals him from the very life he is trying to live. And i think, first, warmth some tenderness around or next to him, maybe the warm blood of a child who has lost her life, that he has killed. But in any case something to bring warmth finally back to this man before he dies.
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA

muni
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Re: Rebirth in everyday life

Post by muni » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:13 pm

[quote=tomschwarz

My point about hugs is... ...lets fast forward to Buddhahood, we permiate all things without descrimination. You are now in Syria. There are two men both completely overrun with fear anxiety and aggression. One is a radical Muslim Soldier of Islam. The other is a right wing American who believes in Bikinis beer and freedom. They are at war with eachother and children are dying as a result (dont forget the tenticles above). Here the level of delusion aggression and violence is so high... ...consider the muslim, raping raping trying to build the Isis-man-state, with his curly dark hair, stinking of BO, seeking endless maskulinization ideal. a hug from you, a consideration like a mother, a warm hand on his cheak, as a seed....

Then the American so lost in the pride of his patriotism, he justifies the death of 100k in a land that is sovereign and not his. The enormity of the disrespect and negative action creates a black tar that seals him from the very life he is trying to live. And i think, first, warmth some tenderness around or next to him, maybe the warm blood of a child who has lost her life, that he has killed. But in any case something to bring warmth finally back to this man before he dies.

:cry: What does it help me to say whatever, or to have whatever ‘insight’ (insight?!) if rusty habit turns its face, not able for that “ hugging” then?

Victims of misperception, all deserve better, all of us; killers, cheaters, rapists, all of us who are prisoner of the darkness of mind; locked in the thorn wood of negativity; fear, aggression, aversion, judging and whatever harm, deserve some light on stream of consciousness, which then may ripen, ripen, ripen.
“Others are the means to realize Nature” is perhaps what your example is for. There is no possibility this realization to be when these men killing and harming, are seen through own negativity/pollution and are not own lights of Compassion.

At least there are the Compasionate examples present, never abandoning anyone in whatever darkness, but spontaneous never ending care. It reminds me on the prayer, the wish to follow in footsteps.
“ Only the development of compassion and understanding for others can bring us the tranquility and happiness we all seek. ”
H H Dalai Lama

"Relax." nirvana-samsara do not stray from spaciousness.

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tomschwarz
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Re: Rebirth in everyday life

Post by tomschwarz » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:18 am

Lots of important points here to discuss... ...but first, please consider my question..

"what do you mean by "would turn mind in delusion"? Do you mean show the mind its delusions?"

One point to start with, you are vigilant about not "judging" but is there also good judging of others when you are not projecting your own problems on to others? Such as judging a teacher? A fallen teacher? Or do you think that we must never judge a fellow human? E.g
Judging that "he is warm", "he is cold" and so on?

I think judging is fine if you take into account, always, 2 things:
1) there are causes for everything that people do, therefor all that they do is logical, and the assassin of course is also a victem.
2) any particular fault in others that grabs our attention, typically relates as much to our own mind as to theirs (a.k.a. projection, displacement, replacement, etc...)
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA

muni
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Re: Rebirth in everyday life

Post by muni » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:06 pm

"what do you mean by "would turn mind in delusion"? Do you mean show the mind its delusions?"
No, by showing loving kindness thinking to then fall in distraction again (like emotional). Mind ( no nature recognition) ( no Paramitas) can think when I take care of fellows, like altruistic or engaged then this would be somehow clinging.

A monk never hugged me when I visited him. Only respectfully greeting for each other, no hugging. Last time we saw each other, it was clear no hug can be actually clinging ideation as well ( I – you). He gave a hug.
In some way what can appear as conventional bodhichitta is not separate from absolute bodhichitta ( These two are not two. ).
I think judging is fine if you take into account, always, 2 things:
1) there are causes for everything that people do, therefor all that they do is logical, and the assassin of course is also a victem.
For sure the killer is victim of disturbed mind.
when you are not projecting your own problems on to others
I mean with judging by ideation due to misperception which holds on-maintains then the idea of independent self - real selves with their particular characteristics not dependent on own consciousness but by themselves.
2) any particular fault in others that grabs our attention, typically relates as much to our own mind as to theirs (a.k.a. projection, displacement, replacement, etc...)
“ Only the development of compassion and understanding for others can bring us the tranquility and happiness we all seek. ”
H H Dalai Lama

"Relax." nirvana-samsara do not stray from spaciousness.

muni
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Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Rebirth in everyday life

Post by muni » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:54 am

One point to start with, you are vigilant about not "judging" but is there also good judging of others when you are not projecting your own problems on to others? Such as judging a teacher? A fallen teacher? Or do you think that we must never judge a fellow human? E.g
Judging others? I never did anything other than that!

Then Dharma is more helpful to see own dirt, own dirty spectacles. How other ways to "judge in order to help"?
Like the spontaneous help to liberate all, help all out of all kind of suffering... through own karmic problems?

Judging a teacher? For example H H is not judging through veils, even name calling when the situation asks such.

Judging harmful behaviour through care yes, to prevent more suffering for the perpetuator-victim and the victims. There is no bad one but by causes and conditions deluded action speech and mind. And this importance not "a person" but behaviour is been explained by His Holiness, Chenrezig.

Devotion and Compassion ( Bodhichitta) are not two separate fields at all ( sorry to fall in repetition). When they are separate they are absent and then yes, then there is “judging” in the way I see that word.
“ Only the development of compassion and understanding for others can bring us the tranquility and happiness we all seek. ”
H H Dalai Lama

"Relax." nirvana-samsara do not stray from spaciousness.

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Re: Rebirth in everyday life

Post by tomschwarz » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:03 pm

Ok clear. So this politically correct delusion "dont judge others" is at least in part quite unworkable and even from the perspective of absolute love and the absolute truth (emptiness/buddhahood) considerations for deluded minds wandering the mean streets of samsara, they must judge, albeit with a warm and unconditionaly loving heart.

About hugs, i was talking about what we might do after we die. So not a conventional hug (though agree with your points about the same), i was/do think of being something like a christian angel after i die. And trying to care for all beings with a mother's love. And the example i always think of is Syria and Iraq where the radical muslims and the usa military go as deep as you can towards hell on earth. And from a non-living state, i hope to be able to caress the cheek of one of those over masculinated radical muslim men (so not exactly hug) and give some warmth to inspire kind heartedness. And the same for the hill billy usa soldier...
Victims of misperception, all deserve better, all of us; killers, cheaters, rapists, all of us who are prisoner of the darkness of mind; locked in the thorn wood of negativity; fear, aggression, aversion, judging and whatever harm, deserve some light on stream of consciousness, which then may ripen, ripen, ripen.
...so when i said hug, i meant "some light on stream of consciousness which then may ripen" ....i feel these angels )))) but no worry i am 100% buddhist ))) i believe its all my mind (but not "in" my mind). So yes i feel angels correcting me. I do something bad, and something will bump my hand. I get off my a$$ and work hard to bring some comfort to another, and i feel that warm caress. But the important additional realization, that makes God, angels, heaven, sinn, hell, and so on Buddhism, is that its all my mind. God will judge me, but that God is me. I am the judge, the jury, and the executioner. God help me. The mind is that big, no center no edge.
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA

muni
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Re: Rebirth in everyday life

Post by muni » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:33 am

About hugs, i was talking about what we might do after we die. So not a conventional hug (though agree with your points about the same), i was/do think of being something like a christian angel after i die. And trying to care for all beings with a mother's love. And the example i always think of is Syria and Iraq where the radical muslims and the usa military go as deep as you can towards hell on earth. And from a non-living state, i hope to be able to caress the cheek of one of those over masculinated radical muslim men (so not exactly hug) and give some warmth to inspire kind heartedness. And the same for the hill billy usa soldier...
Actually in my delusions conventional exist on itself. Even "hug" can as well without delusion, but as long as there is subject object dichotomy there is confusion.
Enlightened "actions" doesn't stop by what is called death. Then even such can be said: "And trying to care for all beings with a mother's love." Since words express no ultimate truth ( emptiness) for reason they are empty. Genuine care without delusion.

By misperception the conventional is on itself.

"The conventional arises from afflictions and karma
And karma arises from the mind."
While:
"Independent of the conventional
No [ultimate] truth can be found."

Without recognition of the so called ultimate, isn't it so that there is always subject-object? There is then only conventional. And what dies? This habitual kind of confusion not, and not its karma effects. If it was so, there was no reason to remain aware right now, to for sh't not fall again and again in that dichotomy. Even misperception is no self which is dying and rebirthing.
give some warmth to inspire kind heartedness
"The Buddhas who embody great compassion
Constantly develop this awakening mind." Nagarjuna.

This is not a one ( subject) cultivating something (object).
“ Only the development of compassion and understanding for others can bring us the tranquility and happiness we all seek. ”
H H Dalai Lama

"Relax." nirvana-samsara do not stray from spaciousness.

muni
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Re: Rebirth in everyday life

Post by muni » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:00 am

on Buddhism, is that its all my mind.
“All of this is but one’s mind,”
That which was stated by the Able One" Nagarjuna.

Longchenpa said something like: "all is not same as mind but not other than". Yes, in that way all is mind and that perhaps expresses the meaning of the Buddha: inseparability of emptiness-appearances? Then there is no subject mind existing on itself what knows or observes objects. Such experience is absent.

"In terms of objects and subjects,
Whatever appears to the consciousness,
Apart from the cognitions themselves,
No external objects exist anywhere." Again Nagarjuna.

:anjali:
“ Only the development of compassion and understanding for others can bring us the tranquility and happiness we all seek. ”
H H Dalai Lama

"Relax." nirvana-samsara do not stray from spaciousness.

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tomschwarz
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Re: Rebirth in everyday life

Post by tomschwarz » Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:42 pm

Since words express no ultimate truth ( emptiness) for reason they are empty. Genuine care without delusion.
))))) words express no, what? You expressed "ultimate truth" with your words ))))

That is a joke, but speaking seriously, the ultimate truth or the truth of emptiness excludes nothing. The first door to emptiness is "all things are empty". Therefor everything, muni, i am absolutely certain, express the ultimate truth.

So tell me where do you want to be reborn?
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA

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Re: Rebirth in everyday life

Post by TharpaChodron » Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:49 am

I would like to be reborn in Zandok Palri or maybe Jambudvipa. Maybe just take a nice break there until I'm ready to return to earth and be of more help to sentient beings. And also, if there's a realm where I can meet my animals again and have lots more dogs, that would be most sublime. :)

muni
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Re: Rebirth in everyday life

Post by muni » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:10 am

tomschwarz wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:42 pm
Since words express no ultimate truth ( emptiness) for reason they are empty. Genuine care without delusion.
))))) words express no, what? You expressed "ultimate truth" with your words ))))

That is a joke, but speaking seriously, the ultimate truth or the truth of emptiness excludes nothing. The first door to emptiness is "all things are empty". Therefor everything, muni, i am absolutely certain, express the ultimate truth.
You beat me. All and everything are expressions of truth, while truth is inexpressible.
So tell me where do you want to be reborn?
I cannot aswer the question. May TharpaChodron be in Zandok Palri.
“ Only the development of compassion and understanding for others can bring us the tranquility and happiness we all seek. ”
H H Dalai Lama

"Relax." nirvana-samsara do not stray from spaciousness.

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Re: Rebirth in everyday life

Post by tomschwarz » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:46 pm

"Practicing Wisdom", Thd Dalai Lama

Dalai Lama shares (...) the following stanza from Shantideva as his greatest source of spiritual inspiration and strength:
For as long as space remains,
For as long as sentient beings remain,
Until then, may I too remain
And dispel the miseries of the world.
Question: is it a good idea for us to seek human rebirth to remain here in Samasara to help others? Or was Shantideva suggesting another realm of samsara to remain in? Can we help others even better by considering this as an essential intention for our enlightenment (no rebirth)?
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA

muni
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Re: Rebirth in everyday life

Post by muni » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:42 am

tomschwarz wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:46 pm
"Practicing Wisdom", Thd Dalai Lama

Dalai Lama shares (...) the following stanza from Shantideva as his greatest source of spiritual inspiration and strength:
For as long as space remains,
For as long as sentient beings remain,
Until then, may I too remain
And dispel the miseries of the world.
Question: is it a good idea for us to seek human rebirth to remain here in Samasara to help others? Or was Shantideva suggesting another realm of samsara to remain in? Can we help others even better by considering this as an essential intention for our enlightenment (no rebirth)?
Are there actually realms through enlightened 'seeing'?
Human is tool to be able to see *the basically kindness of others*, because without
how is enlightenment possible? Even beings suffer and harm, like temporary sick confused minds, their-our nature is same as all enlightened nature, impossible to be different.
To see it as different, or even to see others are so and so and are not like a oneself is own deluded perception and in that way 'even by human body', enlightenment is impossible. It is then necessary to be helped as human instead of help.( Deity Yoga, introduction, guidance.......I guess) Of course the meaning to be helped is to be able to help all. To help is, regarding H H Dalai Lama, the main purpose of what we call this life, and when it is not possible at least do not harm! Since it would be impossible to cut through own delusion by polluted morality. A good heart may not be underestimated, just as gratitude for the amazing kindness of guidance, to follow in such compassionate footsteps. *devotion-compassion*

Perhaps human makes it possible to communicate in the dreamworld to help awaken.
But even not "in life" is there help possible?
“ Only the development of compassion and understanding for others can bring us the tranquility and happiness we all seek. ”
H H Dalai Lama

"Relax." nirvana-samsara do not stray from spaciousness.

muni
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Re: Rebirth in everyday life

Post by muni » Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:22 pm

"But even not "in life" is there help possible?"

Is there any idea of life and death as enlightenment?
“ Only the development of compassion and understanding for others can bring us the tranquility and happiness we all seek. ”
H H Dalai Lama

"Relax." nirvana-samsara do not stray from spaciousness.

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