The world is getting worse and worse

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
[N.B. This is the forum that was called ‘Exploring Buddhism’. The new name simply describes it better.]
shaunc
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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by shaunc » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:06 am

Wayfarer wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:32 am
Shaunc wrote:The reality is that if you have a roof over your head, some food in the cupboard, a change of clothes, your house has drinkable running water, electricity and a flush toilet, you're among the wealthiest 10% of people in the world.
Well, read the post above. It shows that in measurable terms, the proportion of people getting these facilities is increasing, not falling.
I don't doubt that everyday 300000 more people get access to electricity but you'd probably find that the worlds population is increasing at a substantially higher amount than that.
And extreme poverty being measured as $2/day. In all honesty that's a ridiculously low amount. $20/day would hardly be high rolling it.

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Wayfarer
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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by Wayfarer » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:35 am

The point of the story is, that in terms of incomes, life expectancy, disease rates and other measurables, it’s not actually true that ‘the world is getting worse and worse’. It’s getting worse in some ways, but in other ways it’s improving.
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by Jesse » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:39 am

There are some thing's in the world that are improving. However, there are MORE things which are getting worse. The things which are getting worse, are very serious issues that could spell disaster for our entire species.

[Overpopulation]
A very serious one. One which threatens us with extinction in fact. It's a massive topic that's been done to death, but still relevant.

[Government Corruption]
Governments have always been corrupt, but never before have they had so much power. With the Internet being our primary means of Discovery, Knowledge, Culture, Self-informing, and even being THE main advent that shapes our view of the world.

The government, and corporations having strict control over what we see, and by contract (do not see) is a very powerful form of control. This is actually a subject that would take not just one book, but many books to cover the full scope of, but to put it in perspective, and shorten it up: Fake News(The real kind.), Personalized Content(This is where you are only shown articles, news, and websites from a certain perspective. While hiding those of other perspectives, and alternative viewpoints.), Memes (Books have been written on this subject, and I'm not talking about the silly kind of meme, but the real kind -- When used in a certain way, and in combination with previously mentioned tactics, can be used as a form of mind control.), along with a few other things that would take too much text to explain.

[Advanced Technology being used as Weapons.]
This is sort of an extension of the last one, but since that focused on the internet, I thought it deserved its own category. Things like Drones, Computer Viruses, Cyber Warfare(Part of the above topic.).

The technology that is available, and being used today by malicious entities, governments, and corporations is actually beyond what most people imagine it to be. I'm sure everyone has heard the saying, anything that's commercially available, corporations have 10+ years more advanced tech, and the government 50-100 years more advanced than that. Which is true to a certain extent, and some of what they have/use is very scary. I won't really get into it, mainly because of the scope, and partly because of its classified nature, people will mainly assume it's all conspiracy theory.

[People seem in "General" to be more Afflicted than previous generations.]
I'll focus on America, because that's where I live, and what I know best. So at the moment, America is in a HORRIBLE place. Socially we have reverted like 5-10 generations with Racism, Sexism, Violent Tendencies, etc.

It really seems the entire country is out of their minds, everyone is angry at everyone else, pointing the finger of blame at other groups, religions, political affiliations, etc, And the people mainly responsible(The Rich, and Corporations) have manipulated us into this blaming each-other, and hating each-other, simply by fanning the flames of hatred that already afflicted us, in order to cover their tracks.

Our government is falling to pieces, Corporations have taken over our government, and bought out our entire government structure. Our country is literally dead broke (Financially, and Socially), The rich feed off the remains of our broken economy, and society all the while they store their money overseas and have no allegiance to our country or any other entity aside from their own self-interests. If they destroy a country, they can just take their private jets to another one, with their money secured in offshore bank accounts all around the world.

So they sucked another country dry, and destroyed their Government, Environment, Culture, and Economy in the process, So what? They've done it before, and they will do it again, and no one will stop them, simply because, they have all the power and all the money. (Which is essentially the same thing in today's world.)

[Terrorism, War, and Countries Falling Apart.]
Also an extension of the above. Thing's like BREXIT, The Pipeline running through Native American land, Egypt, Spain, Syria, Lebanon, There are just too many to list. So I'll throw in a link to cover it more fully. [1] However, I'll be clear, the direct cause of a MAJORITY of this, IS CORPORATIONS, AND THE ELITE RICH! America went to war in the middle east via excuses in order to STEAL their natural resources. Everyone knows this, it tore apart the fragile balances in the region, and literally started what should be called WW3. Which is basically every powerful nation making Land Grabs, and Resource Grabs, in order to maintain their countries power, wealth, and Status in the world. This is all driven by greed.

All of it happens via Laws, Bills, and Politicians who are Financially backed, Sponsored, and subsequently Illegally Elected. It's all Corporate interest controlled, it has been for decades, and will continue to be so. Just as Exxon Backed George Bush SR, and JR, and now, Rex Tillerson (Ex-executive, and vice president of Exxon-Mobil) is now our HEAD OF frak STATE!.. What else can I really say.. That just kind of puts a nail in the coffin of doubt here.

I mean, I could go on, and on about how our world is falling apart, I'm not going to deny there are good things and good people out there with good intentions. It's just that... It's not enough to counter the massive amount of human greed destroying our world. AND IT'S REALLY frak SAD.

Most days I just try to push it all out of my mind, and not think about it. But it's always there, and not thinking about it... ignoring it.. is the very essence of what is allowing it all to happen. "We can't change anything.". What can I do as a single person?... There are probably around 3 Billion Minimum? People thinking this at any given moment.. Just realize that.

Anyway, I'm done with my overdramatic, too long of a post. Good day to everyone... well night now. this took a while to write, dang! :anjali:


[1] https://www.globalpolicy.org/nations-a- ... tates.html

More information on corperate rule, and subversion of our democracy:
https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2012/01 ... ed-states/
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
-Henry David Thoreau

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WuMing
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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by WuMing » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:18 am

Jesse wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:39 am
There are some thing's in the world that are improving. However, there are MORE things which are getting worse. The things which are getting worse, are very serious issues that could spell disaster for our entire species.

[Overpopulation]
A very serious one. One which threatens us with extinction in fact. It's a massive topic that's been done to death, but still relevant.

[Government Corruption]
Governments have always been corrupt, but never before have they had so much power. With the Internet being our primary means of Discovery, Knowledge, Culture, Self-informing, and even being THE main advent that shapes our view of the world.

The government, and corporations having strict control over what we see, and by contract (do not see) is a very powerful form of control. This is actually a subject that would take not just one book, but many books to cover the full scope of, but to put it in perspective, and shorten it up: Fake News(The real kind.), Personalized Content(This is where you are only shown articles, news, and websites from a certain perspective. While hiding those of other perspectives, and alternative viewpoints.), Memes (Books have been written on this subject, and I'm not talking about the silly kind of meme, but the real kind -- When used in a certain way, and in combination with previously mentioned tactics, can be used as a form of mind control.), along with a few other things that would take too much text to explain.

[Advanced Technology being used as Weapons.]
This is sort of an extension of the last one, but since that focused on the internet, I thought it deserved its own category. Things like Drones, Computer Viruses, Cyber Warfare(Part of the above topic.).

The technology that is available, and being used today by malicious entities, governments, and corporations is actually beyond what most people imagine it to be. I'm sure everyone has heard the saying, anything that's commercially available, corporations have 10+ years more advanced tech, and the government 50-100 years more advanced than that. Which is true to a certain extent, and some of what they have/use is very scary. I won't really get into it, mainly because of the scope, and partly because of its classified nature, people will mainly assume it's all conspiracy theory.

[People seem in "General" to be more Afflicted than previous generations.]
I'll focus on America, because that's where I live, and what I know best. So at the moment, America is in a HORRIBLE place. Socially we have reverted like 5-10 generations with Racism, Sexism, Violent Tendencies, etc.

It really seems the entire country is out of their minds, everyone is angry at everyone else, pointing the finger of blame at other groups, religions, political affiliations, etc, And the people mainly responsible(The Rich, and Corporations) have manipulated us into this blaming each-other, and hating each-other, simply by fanning the flames of hatred that already afflicted us, in order to cover their tracks.

Our government is falling to pieces, Corporations have taken over our government, and bought out our entire government structure. Our country is literally dead broke (Financially, and Socially), The rich feed off the remains of our broken economy, and society all the while they store their money overseas and have no allegiance to our country or any other entity aside from their own self-interests. If they destroy a country, they can just take their private jets to another one, with their money secured in offshore bank accounts all around the world.

So they sucked another country dry, and destroyed their Government, Environment, Culture, and Economy in the process, So what? They've done it before, and they will do it again, and no one will stop them, simply because, they have all the power and all the money. (Which is essentially the same thing in today's world.)

[Terrorism, War, and Countries Falling Apart.]
Also an extension of the above. Thing's like BREXIT, The Pipeline running through Native American land, Egypt, Spain, Syria, Lebanon, There are just too many to list. So I'll throw in a link to cover it more fully. [1] However, I'll be clear, the direct cause of a MAJORITY of this, IS CORPORATIONS, AND THE ELITE RICH! America went to war in the middle east via excuses in order to STEAL their natural resources. Everyone knows this, it tore apart the fragile balances in the region, and literally started what should be called WW3. Which is basically every powerful nation making Land Grabs, and Resource Grabs, in order to maintain their countries power, wealth, and Status in the world. This is all driven by greed.

All of it happens via Laws, Bills, and Politicians who are Financially backed, Sponsored, and subsequently Illegally Elected. It's all Corporate interest controlled, it has been for decades, and will continue to be so. Just as Exxon Backed George Bush SR, and JR, and now, Rex Tillerson (Ex-executive, and vice president of Exxon-Mobil) is now our HEAD OF frak STATE!.. What else can I really say.. That just kind of puts a nail in the coffin of doubt here.

I mean, I could go on, and on about how our world is falling apart, I'm not going to deny there are good things and good people out there with good intentions. It's just that... It's not enough to counter the massive amount of human greed destroying our world. AND IT'S REALLY frak SAD.

Most days I just try to push it all out of my mind, and not think about it. But it's always there, and not thinking about it... ignoring it.. is the very essence of what is allowing it all to happen. "We can't change anything.". What can I do as a single person?... There are probably around 3 Billion Minimum? People thinking this at any given moment.. Just realize that.

Anyway, I'm done with my overdramatic, too long of a post. Good day to everyone... well night now. this took a while to write, dang! :anjali:


[1] https://www.globalpolicy.org/nations-a- ... tates.html

More information on corperate rule, and subversion of our democracy:
https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2012/01 ... ed-states/
very good points, Jesse, on really threatening issues most people do not pay any attention to.

I notice the same here in Germany what you write about
People seem in "General" to be more Afflicted than previous generations.
And I notice that it is really getting worse, it wasn't that tough years ago.
今以佛眼觀之佛與眾生同住解脫之床。無此無彼無二平等。
Now, observing with the eye of the Buddha, both the Buddha and ordinary beings are in the same liberated state. There is neither this nor that: there is only non-duality and identity.
- 空海 Kūkai in Unjigi 吽字義 The Meaning of the Letter Hūṃ
- Kūkai on the Philosophy of Language by Takagi Shingen and Dreitlein Eijō
_______
Śrī Singha said to Padmasambhava:
Since buddhas and sentient beings are inseparable and the same, it is necessary to respect all sentient beings as being on the same level with the buddhas. Can you?
- translated by Malcolm N. Smith

Simon E.
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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by Simon E. » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:04 am

Whether 'the world' is getting worse I have no idea..I suppose it depends on what you mean by the 'world' and 'worse'.

I think we can be sure however that samsara remains samsara. And that samsaric sentient life is characterised by dukkha, anatta, and anicca.

Just as it always has been.
Gone fishin' :smile:

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Tlalok
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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by Tlalok » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:56 pm

Jesse wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:39 am
[People seem in "General" to be more Afflicted than previous generations.]
I'll focus on America, because that's where I live, and what I know best. So at the moment, America is in a HORRIBLE place. Socially we have reverted like 5-10 generations with Racism, Sexism, Violent Tendencies, etc.
Unfortunately America has always been like this, its just the veneer of respectability has somewhat torn off recently.

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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by tomschwarz » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:07 pm

Yes i have problems. That is because i am an egoist and daily seek to prop up my sham of immortality and self existance.

It hurts to be me, so attached to an ever changing, dieing environment. So all that i agree with 100%.

Based on the ideas above, i see a simplification. For me to be better (some fraction of the world), i have to love more. Care more for others.

So if that is a theme, and it is true that the increasing global economic activity of the last 5000 years has led us to meditate less, be more busy (enter electricity), and increase the afore mentioned egoism (see "finding youself", "being yourself", etc...), then yes the world is getting worse. But to the contrary, i am almost certain that by in large i personally have a very, very small amount improved (less egoism, more humility and caring, more kindness that is unconditional)

About modern convenience... ...it is definately "honey on the razor". 1) I know from experience because i lived from 2007 to 2010 without electricity and i meditated more and practiced better. 2) most modern technology can/usually does work against a primary goal of buddism which is considering, accepting and preparing for your death.
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA

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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by cyril » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:35 pm

Today, I incidentally stumbled upon this :

https://www.la-croix.com/France/Alain-D ... 1300905045

"I will leave this world without regret. Life has nothing worthwhile to offer me anymore. I've seen them all, done them all. But especially, I hate this [current] age, it makes me puke." - Alain Delon, now aged 82.
"You have to make the good out of the bad because that is all you have got to make it out of."
- Robert Penn Warren -

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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by DGA » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:14 am

cyril wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:35 pm
Today, I incidentally stumbled upon this :

https://www.la-croix.com/France/Alain-D ... 1300905045

"I will leave this world without regret. Life has nothing worthwhile to offer me anymore. I've seen them all, done them all. But especially, I hate this [current] age, it makes me puke." - Alain Delon, now aged 82.
This reminds me of Deleuze's suicide. "Thought is no longer possible," or words to that effect en Francais

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 41650.html

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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by Adamantine » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:22 am

Re: overpopulation, its recently come to my attention that the world population has literally doubled since I was born in the 1970's.

This fact should not be underestimated.
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by boda » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:41 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:04 am
Whether 'the world' is getting worse I have no idea..I suppose it depends on what you mean by the 'world' and 'worse'.
By 'world' the meaning is what is important to people: the survival of people. By 'worse' the meaning is the decreasing likelihood of the survival of people.

End of lesson.

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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by Grigoris » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:50 pm

boda wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:41 pm
Simon E. wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:04 am
Whether 'the world' is getting worse I have no idea..I suppose it depends on what you mean by the 'world' and 'worse'.
By 'world' the meaning is what is important to people: the survival of people. By 'worse' the meaning is the decreasing likelihood of the survival of people.

End of lesson.
Somehow I think "the world" is a lot more than just the people that inhabit it, and I am not convinced that ensuring the survival of people, is the best thing for this world...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by boda » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:52 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:50 pm
boda wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:41 pm
Simon E. wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:04 am
Whether 'the world' is getting worse I have no idea..I suppose it depends on what you mean by the 'world' and 'worse'.
By 'world' the meaning is what is important to people: the survival of people. By 'worse' the meaning is the decreasing likelihood of the survival of people.

End of lesson.
Somehow I think "the world" is a lot more than just the people that inhabit it, and I am not convinced that ensuring the survival of people, is the best thing for this world...
Precious human birth, don't forget.

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Grigoris
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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by Grigoris » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:00 pm

boda wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:52 pm
Precious human birth, don't forget.
With the emphasis on the "precious", ie a human rebirth endowed with the "Eight Freedoms" and the "Ten Assets".
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by Simon E. » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:14 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:04 am
Whether 'the world' is getting worse I have no idea..I suppose it depends on what you mean by the 'world' and 'worse'.

I think we can be sure however that samsara remains samsara. And that samsaric sentient life is characterised by dukkha, anatta, and anicca.

Just as it always has been.
The parts of my post I would emphasise is the second and the final sentence.

Worlds after all rise and fall.
Gone fishin' :smile:

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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by Sādhaka » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:51 pm

Adamantine wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:22 am
Re: overpopulation, its recently come to my attention that the world population has literally doubled since I was born in the 1970's.

This fact should not be underestimated.

The problem is more ignorance than it is overpopulation. You could fit eight or nine billion people standing shoulder to shoulder into the small state of Rhode Island.

Of course it would better for people to not over-reproduce, that is if they can—via natural methods—avoid over-reproducing. 'Planned parenthood' is not going to help the situation.

The Earth could easily accommodate the current population and then some, if it weren't for the corporations and people's willingness to support them.

We need to eliminate factory farms & all synthetic chemicals; and then implement world wide organic farming. Get rid of "lawns" and replace them with organic gardens.

Of course the current population numbers are unsustainable if nearly everyone is polluting the land and water with glyphosate, pharmaceuticals, synthetic plastics & cleaning chemicals, etc.

Now if people would focus on the essentials i.e. organic clothing, food, medicine, and spirituality (the Buddha's Dharma in particular) instead of celebrities, professional-sports, & monsanto-food restaurants/grocery-stores, then the current population would be easily sustainable.

The school systems don't care if they turn out 'good citizen' corporate/wage-slaves who pollute the Earth with synthetic chemicals, as long as those citizens are educated on the importance of safe-spaces, are good at memorizing & regurgitating lies, and are convinced that they're talking monkeys instead of what the Aggañña Sutra says about human origins.

Because of course western people from abrahamic & secular backgrounds are the ones who are 'educated', and their consensus-science is "empirical"; whereas things like the Aggañña Sutra are only the superstitions of some backwards brown people from long ago (or who knows, maybe some of the old Masters were 'Caucasian').
Last edited by Sādhaka on Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:02 am, edited 3 times in total.
“...we should try to acquire clairvoyance. Without it, we are like a baby bird whose wings are undeveloped and has not yet grown feathers and remains stuck in its nest, unable to fly. Without clairvoyance, we cannot work for other sentient beings.” — Khunu Lama
“Just as a bird can not fly without both wings,
The welfare of others cannot be accomplished without the higher faculties of perception,
So diligently strive for your own wellbeing, whilst mentally considering the welfare of others.” — Longchenpa

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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by justsit » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:28 am

Sādhaka wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:51 pm
The Earth could easily accommodate the current population and then some, if it weren't for ...

Now if people would ...
Big If's - as my mother used to say, If pigs had wings, they'd fly.

Sādhaka wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:51 pm
Because of course western people from abrahamic & secular backgrounds are the ones who are 'educated', and their consensus-science is "empirical"; whereas things like the Aggañña Sutra are only the superstitions of some backwards brown people from long ago (or who knows, maybe some of the old Masters were 'Caucasian').
The problem is the three poisons, which know no national boundaries, race, religion, or educational background.

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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by Grigoris » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:48 am

Off topic posts regarding the use of -ise and ize moved here.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by TharpaChodron » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:42 am

I don't know if things are worse, but I don't think things we're better before. 6-17 million murdered in the holocaust, genocide, slavery and all that? injustices were merely covered up and people were ignorant or feigned ignorance of injustice and wrongdoing.

Now it's just more obvious thanks to media and news sources. The only people who think things were better in "the good old days" are probably the ones who benefitted from it. If you want to idealize the ancient past of what the Americas and Africa was like before Columbus, perhaps that's a legitimate argument.

I just can't believe that a time when black people didn't have the basic right to vote in the US and to be considered humans, as well as Jews being systematically murdered in genocide was better than today.

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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by muni » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:21 am

So if that is a theme, and it is true that the increasing global economic activity of the last 5000 years has led us to meditate less, be more busy (enter electricity), and increase the afore mentioned egoism (see "finding youself", "being yourself", etc...), then yes the world is getting worse. But to the contrary, i am almost certain that by in large i personally have a very, very small amount improved (less egoism, more humility and caring, more kindness that is unconditional)

About modern convenience... ...it is definately "honey on the razor". 1) I know from experience because i lived from 2007 to 2010 without electricity and i meditated more and practiced better. 2) most modern technology can/usually does work against a primary goal of buddism which is considering, accepting and preparing for your death.

How when said that all beings are the means for liberation from ignorance - for Buddha Nature to be revealed, how is self-protection not signing for samsara? Or perhaps caring for all is the only way to be selfish, like H H once said?

Egoism is said (ignorance) to be the only source of all misery, suffering and harm, preventing care, kindness, harmony, inner peace. Then no outer peace is possible, since there is no division.
A mirror never discriminate its reflections. In that way any perceived difference or distinction, seems not other than karmic views-based on I-thought.
“ Only the development of compassion and understanding for others can bring us the tranquility and happiness we all seek. ”
H H Dalai Lama

"Relax." nirvana-samsara do not stray from spaciousness.

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