The world is getting worse and worse

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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tomschwarz
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The world is getting worse and worse

Post by tomschwarz » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:51 pm

Hello friends and family,
His holiness the dalai lama said "the world is getting worse and worse". As you hear he was pointing out that prayer is not effective for improving the world:
Please see 57:45 in this video


Of course i agree. But two questions, 1) do you agree? 2) what do you do to improve the world that works (locally)?
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA


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KeithA
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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by KeithA » Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:25 am

Thanks for posting this link. We seem to be addicted to fear and anxiety. It's oddly comfortable and self-righteous. :shrug:

_/|\_

Ricky
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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by Ricky » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:18 am

Maybe it is maybe it isnt. Its better to focus on your own life and things you have some control over.

shaunc
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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by shaunc » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:09 am

Ricky wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:18 am
Maybe it is maybe it isnt. Its better to focus on your own life and things you have some control over.
I agree with this sentiment. I can't change the world but I can change the very small part of it that I occupy.

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tranides
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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by tranides » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:55 pm

HH is saying some more words about the subject, as i understand it - i cant just pray, cant just sit and repeat mantras and hope that ill be world savior.
That wont make a change for world, nor for society, to make the change i have to develop bodhicitta and practice compasion and altruism.
Since 5 mental poisons are within me, i cannot put resposibility for beeing bad human to some outside beeings, constructs or teachers, however u call it. It is on each of us. So no Budda nor Boddhisattva will do the trick instead of me.
But at the same time i can learn from them, i can pray to them, i can follow them - this will make a change within me, which is the first step in changing the world.
This is great teaching, since emptiness and compassion are going hand by hand.
There are so many activities that can "heal the world, make it better place" that everyone can find something fitting for sure. I dont even feel like answering your second question is needed, its enough as a mirror in which we can check ourselves :)

Regards,
Luke

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tomschwarz
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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by tomschwarz » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:51 pm

Thanks for the very intetesting posts and link. No one said it outright, but am I wrong in understanding that you all disagree with his holiness the dalai lama who said "the world is getting worse and worse"?

Both his holiness the dalai lama's statement and the link to the contrary need context. Let's say, for this discussion, "the world" means planet earth and all of its sentient beings over the past 100,000 years to present.

Then let's say "worse" means more negative karmic activity, meaning more actions by sentient beings which searve to decrease happiness in others rather than increase it.

So with that context is "the world getting worse and worse"?
i dedicate this post to your happiness, the causes of your happiness, the absence of your suffering the causes of the absence of your suffering that we may not have too much attachment nor aversion. SAMAYAMANUPALAYA

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Virgo
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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by Virgo » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:21 pm

tomschwarz wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:51 pm
Then let's say "worse" means more negative karmic activity, meaning more actions by sentient beings which searve to decrease happiness in others rather than increase it.

So with that context is "the world getting worse and worse"?
Tom, the world has never had anything to offer.

In hinayana, we see a cup of tea, and we renounce that cup of tea because it is the object of our attachment, and we wish to root out this attachment. In Mahayana, we see a cup of tea, but we can still taste the tea and enjoy it, and even put honey in it, but we are understanding that it is emtpy, and we are not letting the tea control us.

Kevin
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གདེང་གྲོལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅའ། །


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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by Grigoris » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:56 pm

tomschwarz wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:51 pm
Thanks for the very intetesting posts and link. No one said it outright, but am I wrong in understanding that you all disagree with his holiness the dalai lama who said "the world is getting worse and worse"?
I believe the world is getting worse. Maybe not for the increasingly shrinking number of first-worlders holding onto the handle end of the capitalist billy club (ie most of the people on this site), but definitely for the other 90% of the planet's population.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:15 pm

My own anecdotal experience based on the people I see around me and the things I read on the internet leads me to believe that this is true. But I haven't done any rigorous research into the topic to see if there is any real statistical data to support such a claim. I guess we'd have to get much more specific on what is meant by "worse" if we want to use statistics.

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Invokingvajras
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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by Invokingvajras » Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:53 am

Part of the problem would seem to be that it's becoming increasingly rare to find people who can admit to their own faults without disparaging others. Likewise, behavior that we might come to understand as unethical is becoming cause for success in worldly affairs, which makes it easier to label the well-intentioned as "weak" and easy to destroy. For example, when I was a teenager, I wanted to be an artist. Somewhere down the line I became one of the "cool kids" and garnered friendships once I got into the habit of drawing explicit material. By the time I tried to clean my act up, I wasn't so cool anymore and left myself with a tarnished reputation. I may not be the brightest when it comes to judging character, but the approval of libertine culture is setting society up for a bad trip.
Spiraling Down the Middle Path

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Grigoris
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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by Grigoris » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:54 am

Invokingvajras wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:53 am
...but the approval of libertine culture is setting society up for a bad trip.
What does the acceptance of libertine culture have to do with the wars in the Middle East? With modern slave trade in Africa? With the rise in anti-libertine religious fundamentalism? With 3rd world poverty? Etc...

I do believe you are barking up the wrong tree.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

muni
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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by muni » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:56 am

His Holiness has no any self-importance at all, is only simple monk or His Holiness for sake of beings, but he is not experiencing to be an independent great one. This would exclude Chenrezig aspect and be delusion. His humble never ending care and kindness is teaching itself.

There was a story how very poor people have been the object of bullying in their village till even one of them lost life in deep sadness. Since nobody helped them, it seems that mean behaviour was supported as being correct!

His Holiness gave the example of the smiling teacher in the classroom.
Perhaps smiling can be shared by most. Even lacking skills or posibilities what to do right now, a smile is costing no money. Mostly a smile is answered, sometimes not. At least it is in many cases a gift of not to underestimate value by whatever interaction.
Warm heart-calm mind. Peace, harmony. There will always be those taking advantage of such, be aware, H H said. :smile:
“ Only the development of compassion and understanding for others can bring us the tranquility and happiness we all seek. ”
H H Dalai Lama

"Relax." nirvana-samsara do not stray from spaciousness.

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Invokingvajras
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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by Invokingvajras » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:19 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:54 am
Invokingvajras wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:53 am
...but the approval of libertine culture is setting society up for a bad trip.
What does the acceptance of libertine culture have to do with the wars in the Middle East? With modern slave trade in Africa? With the rise in anti-libertine religious fundamentalism? With 3rd world poverty? Etc...

I do believe you are barking up the wrong tree.
Well, you'd have to break each of those issues down and see how they compare with the Dharma. There are problems everywhere, in shapes and forms specific to that society. I refer to "libertine" in the sense of having no restraint. There is after all anti-religious fundamentalism, and many Western people despise Buddhists and any form of cultural expression that doesn't fit in with their own worldview, for reasons that I've yet to fully understand.

I'd like to point out a scene from a film that captures a bit of what I mean. Is it just me or is there a sort of xenophobia going on here?



This clip was used by an instructor in an ESL program as a "good example" of how English speakers deal with culture shock and self care. I personally found it appalling. It was also implied on several occasions that Korean monks are women-starved sexists. We do have a subculture within "progressive" movements, that is built on fear, hate, greed, and ignorance, especially of views and ethics different from their own. And if your moral backbone is weak enough to discard your practice (as I did) in order to fit in, you'll regret it later, like a fly in a spider's web.

Regarding your question, the examples you gave might be a sign that the political rhetoric has increasingly come to reference the need to regain power and control. Instead of recognizing different values and moving along, there's a tendency to seek and destroy.
Spiraling Down the Middle Path

♒⚡~若悩乱者頭破七分~⚡♑

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by PuerAzaelis » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:48 pm

Invokingvajras wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:19 pm
... xenophobia going on here?
The foreigner in Japan is xenophobic? Um, irony? Perhaps watch the whole film which is a sly look at that topic, among others.
Invokingvajras wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:19 pm
Korean monks are women-starved sexists.
Movie was set in Tokyo.

It seems to be a modern thing to assume that placards are attached to everything, including art.

As if nothing more interesting than a kind of journalism, or perhaps advertising, could possibly be going on.

Maybe Romeo and Juliet was pro-suicide?

Anyway, as always, the problem is language. If anything has gone to hell in a hand basket recently, it's that.

Without speaking in primary colors I suppose no-one thinks the signal will make it through the noise any more.

Which is doubly ironic given this was the very point I think you were originally trying to make:
Invokingvajras wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:19 pm
... political rhetoric has increasingly come to reference the need to regain power and control. Instead of recognizing different values and moving along, there's a tendency to seek and destroy.
Verily.
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.

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Invokingvajras
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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by Invokingvajras » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:06 am

PuerAzaelis wrote: Movie was set in Tokyo.
The reference to Korean monks was an entirely different conversation. I should have made that more clear. My apologies.
Spiraling Down the Middle Path

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Wayfarer
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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by Wayfarer » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:47 am

Actually here is some concrete evidence that the world is actually getting better and better - in terms of life expectancy, income, and overall living standards. As of 2017:
Every day, the number of people around the world living in extreme poverty (less than about $2 a day) goes down by 217,000, according to calculations by Max Roser, an Oxford University economist who runs a website called Our World in Data. Every day, 325,000 more people gain access to electricity. And 300,000 more gain access to clean drinking water.
More here.
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

shaunc
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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by shaunc » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:22 am

I watched that film clip and I have to say that I agree with gregarious. I don't often agree with Greg, personally I think that politically he's so far left he's off the road but how can you even think to compare what's going on in that woman's life to a person in a 3rd world country that has to struggle everyday just to feed his family.
The reality is that if you have a roof over your head, some food in the cupboard, a change of clothes, your house has drinkable running water, electricity and a flush toilet, you're among the wealthiest 10% of people in the world.
My nephew in the Philippines works hard in construction. He supports a pregnant wife and tries to help his mother and siblings on AU $7.00/day.
I'm a labourer and when my wife and myself go over we're like bloody celebrities or something in her village.

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Wayfarer
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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by Wayfarer » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:32 am

Shaunc wrote:The reality is that if you have a roof over your head, some food in the cupboard, a change of clothes, your house has drinkable running water, electricity and a flush toilet, you're among the wealthiest 10% of people in the world.
Well, read the post above. It shows that in measurable terms, the proportion of people getting these facilities is increasing, not falling.
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

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Re: The world is getting worse and worse

Post by pemachophel » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:42 am

yes, but ime, people's kleshas are getting worse, our moral fiber is frayed and fraying, and most people are substituting a attempted samsaric fix for the real solution to suffering. all these supposed advances are, from my pov, a honey-smeared razor.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

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