Solipsism

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
[N.B. This is the forum that was called ‘Exploring Buddhism’. The new name simply describes it better.]
Tirisilex
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Solipsism

Post by Tirisilex » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:53 pm

Solipsism = the view or theory that the self is all that can be known to exist.
You are the center of the universe and everything else doesn't exist only you.

This is against The Buddhas teaching yes?

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Solipsism

Post by dzogchungpa » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:08 am

Tirisilex wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:53 pm
Solipsism = the view or theory that the self is all that can be known to exist.
You are the center of the universe and everything else doesn't exist only you.

This is against The Buddhas teaching yes?

Who wants to know?
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Wayfarer
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Re: Solipsism

Post by Wayfarer » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:10 am

Compassion and solipsism can’t possibly co-exist, if you think about it.
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki-roshi

SunWuKong
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Re: Solipsism

Post by SunWuKong » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:24 am

Tirisilex wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:53 pm
Solipsism = the view or theory that the self is all that can be known to exist.
You are the center of the universe and everything else doesn't exist only you.

This is against The Buddhas teaching yes?
One Zen master said "entire Universe inside bony skull" but i think the meaning isn't the same. Buddha teaches that there is no permanent, eternal Self or Soul, "Atman." He teaches Anatman, that what one takes to be self or ego is ultimately really only Brahman. This isn't inconsistent with other Indian mystics
"We are magical animals that roam" ~ Roam

marting
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Re: Solipsism

Post by marting » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:32 am

Tirisilex wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:53 pm
This is against The Buddhas teaching yes?
More importantly, it is deeply silly.

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Solipsism

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:07 am

Only two things can be proven to occur:
1.awareness
2.objects of awareness

"proven to occur" is a phrase superior to "known to exist"
because "exist" in the buddhist context refers to having an intrinsic self-arising reality
which cannot be deconstructed into other parts,

and the term, "known", well, that is just too vague.

It cannot be argued that awareness doesn't occur
otherwise, there would be no awareness of that argument.

awareness is also an object of awareness: there is an awareness of being aware.

to answer your question more specifically...

Buddhism teaches that there is nothing that arises that can be said to be truly an existent "self".
All constructs identified as a self are composites arising from conditional causes.
When those causes cease to function, the apparent arising of a self likewise ceases.
(when you stop blowing into a horn, the sound stops).

.
.
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Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.

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daibunny
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Re: Solipsism

Post by daibunny » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:24 am

Solipsism is only a problem if you think its a problem.
Nothing remains
Of the house that I was born in--
Fireflies.

- Santoka, 1882-1940
Mountain Tasting: Zen Haiku by Santoka Taneda, 1980, p.48
Translated by John Stevens

Jeff H
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Location: Vermont, USA

Re: Solipsism

Post by Jeff H » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:08 pm

Thanks for playing, all you figments of my imagination! :twothumbsup:

AND THE WINNERS ARE ...
dzogchungpa wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:08 am
Tirisilex wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:53 pm
Solipsism = the view or theory that the self is all that can be known to exist.
You are the center of the universe and everything else doesn't exist only you.
This is against The Buddhas teaching yes?
Who wants to know?
daibunny wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:24 am
Solipsism is only a problem if you think its a problem.
marting wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:32 am
More importantly, it is deeply silly.
:applause: :woohoo:


:toilet:
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

Tirisilex
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Re: Solipsism

Post by Tirisilex » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:20 pm

I think "Who wants to know?" by dzogchungpa was the best reaction!

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Solipsism

Post by dzogchungpa » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:23 pm

Tirisilex wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:20 pm
I think "Who wants to know?" by dzogchungpa was the best reaction!


:good:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

Monlam Tharchin
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Re: Solipsism

Post by Monlam Tharchin » Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:09 pm

daibunny wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:24 am
Solipsism is only a problem if you think its a problem.
I don't know, plenty of beings don't think samsara is a problem.

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Drenpa
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Re: Solipsism

Post by Drenpa » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:57 am

marting wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:32 am
Tirisilex wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:53 pm
This is against The Buddhas teaching yes?
More importantly, it is deeply silly.
People are deeply silly, not philosophies. Solipsism has its utility, the silliness comes when you take a philosophy, any philosophy, and create some eternal "true" system that is supposed to answer all of life's issues. While Solipsism goes too far, it's something that we apes had to consider at some point in our evolution, and its still useful even when considered in light of Buddha Dharma to point in the direction of the primacy of the subjective experience, and point to the fact that external things aren't as solid as they seem.

Tirisilex
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Re: Solipsism

Post by Tirisilex » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:55 am

I feel so alone :shrug:

Monlam Tharchin
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Re: Solipsism

Post by Monlam Tharchin » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:01 am

If there's a you there's an all of us who are with you :)

climb-up
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Re: Solipsism

Post by climb-up » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:23 pm

Tirisilex wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:53 pm
Solipsism = the view or theory that the self is all that can be known to exist.
You are the center of the universe and everything else doesn't exist only you.

This is against The Buddhas teaching yes?
This was brought up recently in the dzogchen forum.

I am no expert, but think that solipsism is incompatible with Buddhas teachings. The tricky thing is that some of the teachings could seem to imply solipsism (could solipsism be a 'near enemy' of aspects of the dharma?).

I recently finished a good book called "spell of the sensuous" which is, among other things, an introduction to phenomenology. Solipsism was major problem facing the founder of phenomenology and he eventually solved it through the idea of 'intersubjectivity.' If you are interested you might want to either read the book or google 'intersubjectivity.'

Tirisilex
Posts: 142
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Re: Solipsism

Post by Tirisilex » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:13 pm

Sounds interesting... I'll check it out.

muni
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Re: Solipsism

Post by muni » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:29 am

Tirisilex wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:53 pm
Solipsism = the view or theory that the self is all that can be known to exist.
You are the center of the universe and everything else doesn't exist only you.

This is against The Buddhas teaching yes?
Wow. This is great post. Sounds like mind disconnected from heart, so to speak.

Some quotes which I think can as well confuse without guidance, contemplation, meditation:

Dogen: "The true person is not anyone in particular but like the deep blue color of the limitless sky, it is everyone, everywhere in the world."

Kalu Rinpoche: “We live in illusion and the appearance of things. There is a reality. We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all.”

Therefore words are not to rely on but what they are pointing.

Dogen: "I asked what are words. The Tenzo said: one two three four five. I asked again what is practice? He answered: nothing in the entire universe is hidden.”
“ Only the development of compassion and understanding for others can bring us the tranquility and happiness we all seek. ”
H H Dalai Lama

"Relax." nirvana-samsara do not stray from spaciousness.

Simon E.
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Re: Solipsism

Post by Simon E. » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:29 am

Tirisilex wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:53 pm
Solipsism = the view or theory that the self is all that can be known to exist.
You are the center of the universe and everything else doesn't exist only you.

This is against The Buddhas teaching yes?
It is not at all in accord with Buddhadharma.

However it is often the actual view of many 'mind only' advocates.

You can find it on most Buddhist websites most days.
Someone asks a question and is told that really neither they nor the problem exists..only mind.
That is solipsism in its quasi-Buddhist form.
All the more pernicious because those afflicted with quasi-Buddhist solipsism hardly ever realise that it IS an affliction. They think they have cracked the Dharma.
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

muni
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Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Solipsism

Post by muni » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:52 am

Wayfarer wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:10 am
Compassion and solipsism can’t possibly co-exist, if you think about it.
Yes, it cannot. And this is not what is meant with inseparable, all inclusive or all encompassing.
Maybe an inspiration:
Not to know the equality of appearance emptiness
And get attached to appearances alone is delusion
But to get attached to emptiness alone is delusion too
If you know the equality of appearance emptiness
There’s no need to get caught up in or give up phenomena
Those appearances and emptiness

What you must do is to rest in the spaciousness
Of the equality of appearance emptiness.


Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche
“ Only the development of compassion and understanding for others can bring us the tranquility and happiness we all seek. ”
H H Dalai Lama

"Relax." nirvana-samsara do not stray from spaciousness.

Jeff H
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Location: Vermont, USA

Re: Solipsism

Post by Jeff H » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:31 pm

I don't understand how there can be a conversation about solipsism. If solipsism is true, then none of you exist. You're not even dependently arisen because I made it all up from my solitary perspective. Solipsism is awareness from only one perspective whereas dependent origination implies multiple perspectives. If it is possible to have a dialogue about solipsism, it is thereby disproved.
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

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