Worship?

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
Post Reply
Tirisilex
Posts: 162
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 1:14 am

Worship?

Post by Tirisilex »

Did the Buddha ever ask for worship? It is my understanding that the Buddha never asked for worship. Is worship a requirement for a practicing Buddhist?
Bristollad
Posts: 1123
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:39 am

Re: Worship?

Post by Bristollad »

What do you mean by worship?

If you say your understanding is that it isn't part of the Buddha's teaching, then why are you asking if it is required by a practising Buddhist?

Has someone told you to worship the Buddha?
Or do you think that there are others who do worship the Buddha contrary to what you think the Buddha instructed.
The antidote—to be free from the suffering of samsara—you need to be free from delusion and karma; you need to be free from ignorance, the root of samsara. So you need to meditate on emptiness. That is what you need. Lama Zopa Rinpoche
Schrödinger’s Yidam
Posts: 7885
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: Worship?

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

There’s lots of different types of Buddhism.

In the original type there was respect and regard, but no worship. So if you’re question is about how the historical Buddha taught, the answer is that there is no worship of Buddha in that school.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Tirisilex
Posts: 162
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 1:14 am

Re: Worship?

Post by Tirisilex »

Bristollad wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:39 pm What do you mean by worship?

If you say your understanding is that it isn't part of the Buddha's teaching, then why are you asking if it is required by a practising Buddhist?

Has someone told you to worship the Buddha?
Or do you think that there are others who do worship the Buddha contrary to what you think the Buddha instructed.
As far as I know, I do not believe the Buddha asked for worship. I was having a debate with a Christian and He said that Buddhists worship their ancestors. I told him they do not But I wanted to be sure if Buddhists do worship. As for defining worship, I do not know how to define it. Something like how Christians worship God.
Schrödinger’s Yidam
Posts: 7885
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: Worship?

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

In China Buddhism, Taoism, and Confucius all got swirled together into a kind of soup. Ancestor worship isn’t part of Buddhism but was a part of that soup. That’s what your friend was probably thinking.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
muni
Posts: 5559
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Worship?

Post by muni »

"Buddha " should never ask to worship "him".
But there need to be respect and trust, very much, other ways merely words will be heard. "Buddha" is like holding a mirror ( metaphorical) to show us nature of all, so nature of us. Or inviting us to see nature. There are many ways to do so. Without respect and trust, it is not possible.

Buddha appears often in form since this is easy for us. But if we grasp-hold onto this name/form, we are clinging. Then worship can be as an attitude of attachment, which is by dividing mind. And then "all so seen other" is/are not good, or less good. But "Buddha" is top ( top attachment perhaps). This keeps our confusion only going on.
Buddha shows/invites into nature which is impartial compassionate, then devotion is not separate from compassion.
User avatar
Wayfarer
Former staff member
Posts: 5150
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:31 am
Location: AU

Re: Worship?

Post by Wayfarer »

‘From the Mahayana point of view, beings are divisible into two heads: those that are enlightened and those that are ignorant. The former are called Buddhas including also Bodhisattvas, Arhats, and Pratyekabuddhas while the latter comprise all the rest of beings under the general designation of bala or balaprithagjana—bala meaning "undeveloped", "puerile", or "ignorant", and prithagjana "people different" from the enlightened, that is, the multitudes, or people of ordinary type, whose minds are found engrossed in the pursuit of egotistic pleasures and unawakened to the meaning of life. This class is also known as Sarvasattva, "all beings" or sentient beings. The Buddha wants to help the ignorant, hence the Buddhist teaching and discipline.’

D T Suzuki, commentary on the Lankavatara Sutra.

This is deeply inimical to modern individualistic liberalism.
'Only practice with no gaining idea' ~ Suzuki Roshi
Bristollad
Posts: 1123
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:39 am

Re: Worship?

Post by Bristollad »

Tirisilex wrote: Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:25 am
Bristollad wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:39 pm What do you mean by worship?

If you say your understanding is that it isn't part of the Buddha's teaching, then why are you asking if it is required by a practising Buddhist?

Has someone told you to worship the Buddha?
Or do you think that there are others who do worship the Buddha contrary to what you think the Buddha instructed.
As far as I know, I do not believe the Buddha asked for worship. I was having a debate with a Christian and He said that Buddhists worship their ancestors. I told him they do not But I wanted to be sure if Buddhists do worship. As for defining worship, I do not know how to define it. Something like how Christians worship God.
As others have answered, ancestor worship is not part of buddhism but may be part of folk practices in countries where buddhism is practised. Unless what your debate partner was trying to say was that buddhists worship someone who was once a man - hence its no different than worshipping another old dead person like an ancestor.

From my point of view I would agree that buddhists don’t worship Buddha like christians worship Christ. Hence the Buddha is a teacher, a doctor who prescribes the cure, someone who showed the path not a creator who made me and everything nor a judge who will reward or punish me for following or breaking the rules/laws.
The antidote—to be free from the suffering of samsara—you need to be free from delusion and karma; you need to be free from ignorance, the root of samsara. So you need to meditate on emptiness. That is what you need. Lama Zopa Rinpoche
Jeff H
Posts: 1020
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:56 pm
Location: Vermont, USA

Re: Worship?

Post by Jeff H »

Another way to look at it is that we greatly honor and revere those beings, like Buddha, who represent selfless loving-compassion and ceaselessly work for the benefit of all living beings. I can see an element of worship in that. But the purpose of that honor and reverence is not for Buddha’s sake but for the sake of awakening and ripening our own buddhanature in order to do likewise.
Where now is my mind engaged? - Shantideva
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17092
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Worship?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Tirisilex wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:04 pm Did the Buddha ever ask for worship? It is my understanding that the Buddha never asked for worship. Is worship a requirement for a practicing Buddhist?
IT is much less clear than that. If you read some of the Pali passages about Buddha Recollection, they do not differ greatly in many respects from Mahayana notions of Buddha worship..."Early Buddhism" proponents have IMO put forth a narrative of the Buddhas just being a "normal guy", but that is not really a thing.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ati/tip ... .budd.html
106. Though month after month for a hundred years one should offer sacrifices by the thousands, yet if only for a moment one should worship those of perfected minds that honor is indeed better than a century of sacrifice.
Here's a line from the Dhammapada.

You can find all kinds of stuff in the Pali Canon about the importance of how one views Buddha, Dharma and Sangha, whether or not the term "worship" is used (a loaded term in Wester Culture), they amount to something quite similar. In my experience this is a weird question, because this very term has certain connotations in the West that one might as well just dispense with. In my experience it is better to learn about Refuge, and understanding the meaning of this, than to dwell on whether or not the Buddha requested that we "worship" him in the particular cultural lexicon of our time and place.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
steveb1
Posts: 728
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:37 am

Re: Worship?

Post by steveb1 »

Buddha didn't ask for worship, if by that is meant "adoration of a god or deva or heavenly being". In my reading, I have encountered the idea that folk worship of the Buddha began rather early, but was eschewed by "mainstream" Buddhist teachers.

I can vouch for non-worship of Shakyamuni from what I've read, and also from my personal experience of Jodo Shinshu/Shin Buddhism, wherein Amida Buddha is revered as our redeemer, our Enlightener, our "raft from the Other Shore", etc., but is not considered a god and is not worshiped as such. Shin's main "practice", in fact, consists in recitation of the Nembutsu - "I take refuge in the Buddha" - which is an expression not of worship, but of gratitude to Amida.
User avatar
Mantrik
Former staff member
Posts: 2248
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Worship?

Post by Mantrik »

Whatever the religion in a community, people will make offerings and ask for help of the sacred figure presented to them. If there is no material figure they will drawn or sculpt something which satisifies their needs.

Intellectual discussion of what Buddha may or may not have taught or what we understand about different schools of Buddhism is all very well, but there is worship and always will be as long as people have suffering to aleviate. Good luck to anyone telling a villager not to ask Buddhas to help cure their sick child, keep them safe on a journey, make it rain to prevent starvation, etc.

I'm not even sure that it matters too much if someone worships Buddhas, if it leads them into good practice, and I wouldn't deprive people of a source of comfort at times when pontificating probably deserves a pie in the face.

It is preferable to having no practice or engaging in the worship of other beings. I am aware of those who worship a Yidam for their enlightenment, and a Dharmapala for their wordly needs and desires.......some with more of a focus on the latter being. Maybe it is not so awful, if we try to think of it with some compassion. Amulets, anyone? ;)
http://www.khyung.com ཁྲོཾ

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)
User avatar
seeker242
Posts: 2092
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:50 pm
Location: South Florida, USA

Re: Worship?

Post by seeker242 »

Tirisilex wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:04 pm Did the Buddha ever ask for worship? It is my understanding that the Buddha never asked for worship. Is worship a requirement for a practicing Buddhist?
The Buddha never asked for worship but he did not dissuade people from venerating him. Veneration and reverance is not really the same as the christian notion of "worshiping"
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:36 pm IT is much less clear than that. If you read some of the Pali passages about Buddha Recollection, they do not differ greatly in many respects from Mahayana notions of Buddha worship..."Early Buddhism" proponents have IMO put forth a narrative of the Buddhas just being a "normal guy", but that is not really a thing.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ati/tip ... .budd.html
106. Though month after month for a hundred years one should offer sacrifices by the thousands, yet if only for a moment one should worship those of perfected minds that honor is indeed better than a century of sacrifice.
Here's a line from the Dhammapada.
Reading into the context of statements like that helps it become more clear. This particular verse really doesn't have much to do with the notion of worshiping. The corresponding story provides the context.
On one occasion, Thera Sariputta asked his uncle the brahmin whether he was doing any meritorious deeds. The brahmin answered that he was making offerings to the value of one thousand Kahapanas (coins) every month to the Nigantha ascetics, hoping to get to the Brahma world in his next existence. Thera Sariputta then explained to him that his teachers had given him false hopes and that they themselves did not know the way to the Brahma world. So saying, he took his uncle the brahmin to the Buddha, and requested the Buddha to expound the Dhamma, which would surely take one to the Brahma world.

The Buddha said to the brahmin, "Brahmin, an offering of a spoonful of alms-food to a bhikkhu would be much better than your present offering of one thousand Kahapanas to your teachers."

Then the Buddha spoke in verse as follows:

Verse 106: Month after month for a hundred years, one may make offerings (to ordinary people) to the value of a thousand Kahapanas; yet if, only for a moment one pays homage to a bhikkhu who has practised Insight Development, this homage is, indeed, better than a hundred years of making offerings (to ordinary people).

At the end of the discourse, the brahmin, who was the maternal uncle of Thera Sariputta, attained Sotapatti Fruition.
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!
User avatar
Queequeg
Former staff member
Posts: 14462
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Worship?

Post by Queequeg »

One of those perennial questions.

As others have pointed out, the allergy to "worship" might say more about the person insisting the Buddha is not worshiped than the actuality of Buddhism in practice across the diversity of the Buddhist world in Asia.

Google says:
wor·ship
ˈwərSHəp/
noun
1. the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.
"the worship of God"
synonyms: reverence, veneration, adoration, glorification, glory, exaltation; More
verb
1. show reverence and adoration for (a deity); honor with religious rites.
"the Maya built jungle pyramids to worship their gods"
synonyms: revere, reverence, venerate, pay homage to, honor, adore, praise, pray to, glorify, exalt, extol; hold dear, cherish, treasure, esteem, adulate, idolize, deify, hero-worship, lionize, overpraise; follow, look up to; informalput on a pedestal; formallaud; archaicmagnify
"they worship pagan gods"
The practices of many lay, as well as monastic, Buddhists could be described as worship.

One of the Buddha's titles is Bhagavan - commonly translated as "World Honored One" - was originally a title of Brahma in in ancient India, I understand.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
User avatar
Yavana
Posts: 1158
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 5:15 am
Location: Trumpaloka

Re: Worship?

Post by Yavana »

Queequeg wrote: Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:00 pm One of the Buddha's titles is Bhagavan - commonly translated as "World Honored One" - was originally a title of Brahma in in ancient India, I understand.
"The Lord." Lol.
Post Reply

Return to “Dharma in Everyday Life”