is doing spell is ok in Buddhism?

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
[N.B. This is the forum that was called ‘Exploring Buddhism’. The new name simply describes it better.]
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Grigoris
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Re: is doing spell is ok in Buddhism?

Post by Grigoris » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:01 pm

Pero wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:55 pm
When you do Dzambhala for wealth, Dzambhala somehow transforms your selfish intention into a pure one?
Nope and that's why the practice will fail miserably (ultimately). It's not the Buddhas fault when that happens though. ;) Dzambhala practice is about realising the enriching quality of Dharma and the liberatory nature of generosity, with the goal of enlightenment. It is not about getting that extra Porsche.
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"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Re: is doing spell is ok in Buddhism?

Post by Ogyen » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:02 pm

Pero wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:55 pm
So you guys don't go see a doctor when you're ill? You guys just pray to Buddha and you're healed? When you do Dzambhala for wealth, Dzambhala somehow transforms your selfish intention into a pure one?
Experts exist for a reason. Consulting them is good practice.
:meditate:
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"To love. To be loved. To never forget your own insignificance. To never get used to the unspeakable violence and the vulgar disparity of life around you. To seek joy in the saddest places. To pursue beauty to its lair. To never simplify what is complicated or complicate what is simple. To respect strength, never power. Above all, to watch. To try and understand. To never look away. And never, never, to forget." –Arundhati Roy

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Re: is doing spell is ok in Buddhism?

Post by DiamondMeru » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:05 pm

[/quote]
Personally. ....magic scares me....when i was a young child, I used my mind to do things magically. .....it happened so easily that it scared me....so i never had the desire to get involved with those forces .
[/quote]

There is a lot of fear on this website, as a Wiccan who is trying to practice Buddhism, I am sad to say that magic gets a bad rap because so many people have been taught that it is evil or causes bad karma. Honestly, I have had some really bad consequences from protection spells, but I have also seen the true Dukka of Samasara from these consequences and it has led me here to Buddhism. Perhaps not all mishaps are evil or corrupting but a guide to truth. Power gone wrong can be devastating for the practitioner and others around them so I see how spells when not used with absolute good intention can be damaging. So I believe healing, exorcism, and purification to be good magic but all else if done for ego can be taking from others therefore creating bad karma.
Just beware and really study magic and Buddhism before you take a leap that could be damaging.
Peace and love,
A solitary Wiccan Buddhist or pseudo Buddhist :rolleye:

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Re: is doing spell is ok in Buddhism?

Post by Kunga Lhadzom » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:25 pm

DiamondMeru wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:05 pm
magic gets a bad rap because so many people have been taught that it is evil
I was never taught that it was evil. I said it scared me when I was a child. It scared me because I saw how powerful your thoughts really are, not by what anyone had told me. I was actually very interested in the occult at a young age....my mother told me stories of how she was taught how to tell fortunes with cards, and how she was kidnapped by gypsies when she was a kid.....i loved magic and crystal balls and gypsies ...
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Re: is doing spell is ok in Buddhism?

Post by Grigoris » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:43 pm

Let's not forget people that the OP posted in the "DHARMA in everyday life" sub-forum, as such they should expect to receive information from a Dharma perspective. And that generally means that liberation ends suffering. Not magic. Not money, chicks and hot cars. ;)
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Re: is doing spell is ok in Buddhism?

Post by Ogyen » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:48 pm

At the end of the day these are all invented categorizations to explain experiences... To turn information into knowledge. I have done readings for over 1000 people in my life, readings of all sorts from cards, charts, stones, sticks, etc. It's all comes down to the same thing: clarity. I have done this as a practice because people seem to obtain some benefit from the insights they get, and come back years later letting me know it all went and I trust the process.

At this point, after studying so many systems, philosophy and esoterica in general, I've come to understand life in a fairly simple way with 2 questions before doing anything: does it provide a real benefit? What is the cost of the action?

Of course you can't always see the cost upfront, many costs are hidden because we see with unclear eyes. I've learned the cost of knowledge is usually a fairly steep price, and it is part of the human process.

When asking does it provide a real benefit, it has a lot to do with motivations. I have refuted readings requested when I could clearly see this would not provide a benefit for the person thst would outweigh how they would use it to go deeper in some delusion to feed their sense of self-importance. I actively choose to not contribute to that.

There are countless systems to organize data and use and manipulate manifested reality, from lighting candles, going to church, temple, synagogue, dancing dervishes, reading chicken entrails, studying the depths of every kind of astrology, philosophy, religion, etc. You can of course manipulate matter with any amount of actions/intents... But that is not what is being asked here and there is no attack as far as I've perceived this on any of those systems of knowledge.

Here we are in a Buddhist forum and the method we can discuss is Dharma as it is taught by our teachers and lineages. As the reference point for the OP's question within the Dharma goes back to the nature of emptiness, the action that will be most beneficial in helping decide, and the karma the OP decides is the least of all harms for the particular situation.

The fundamental and most important question back to the OP about doing a spell would be... Will it provide more benefit than it will cost you in the context of your path/practice?

Again, it comes back to context and motivations.

There are only decisions and consequences. The rest is attributed.
:meditate:
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"To love. To be loved. To never forget your own insignificance. To never get used to the unspeakable violence and the vulgar disparity of life around you. To seek joy in the saddest places. To pursue beauty to its lair. To never simplify what is complicated or complicate what is simple. To respect strength, never power. Above all, to watch. To try and understand. To never look away. And never, never, to forget." –Arundhati Roy

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Re: is doing spell is ok in Buddhism?

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:12 pm

ShineeSeoul wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:16 am
Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:13 pm
Can't you just PRAY TO BUDDHA
Instead of all the mumbo-jumbo ?????
I have prayed to Buddhas for long and many time

and I am sad to say nothing has changed :(
maybe you lack merits.

If praying is not enough, look out for Tara practices, there is a specific one for overcoming poverty/misery, that's the fastest and effective way to deal this problem.

if you do so, don't forget to help people also, be generous. generosiy has it's own power, a far reach power.

good luck!

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Re: is doing spell is ok in Buddhism?

Post by Aryjna » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:18 pm

ShineeSeoul wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:16 am
Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:13 pm
Can't you just PRAY TO BUDDHA
Instead of all the mumbo-jumbo ?????
I have prayed to Buddhas for long and many time

and I am sad to say nothing has changed :(
Unfortunately, praying or practicing with a selfish motivation to get worldly benefits makes it difficult to get the benefit.

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Re: is doing spell is ok in Buddhism?

Post by Mantrik » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:48 pm

Ogyen wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:48 pm
At the end of the day these are all invented categorizations to explain experiences... To turn information into knowledge. I have done readings for over 1000 people in my life, readings of all sorts from cards, charts, stones, sticks, etc. It's all comes down to the same thing: clarity. I have done this as a practice because people seem to obtain some benefit from the insights they get, and come back years later letting me know it all went and I trust the process.

At this point, after studying so many systems, philosophy and esoterica in general, I've come to understand life in a fairly simple way with 2 questions before doing anything: does it provide a real benefit? What is the cost of the action?

Of course you can't always see the cost upfront, many costs are hidden because we see with unclear eyes. I've learned the cost of knowledge is usually a fairly steep price, and it is part of the human process.

When asking does it provide a real benefit, it has a lot to do with motivations. I have refuted readings requested when I could clearly see this would not provide a benefit for the person thst would outweigh how they would use it to go deeper in some delusion to feed their sense of self-importance. I actively choose to not contribute to that.

There are countless systems to organize data and use and manipulate manifested reality, from lighting candles, going to church, temple, synagogue, dancing dervishes, reading chicken entrails, studying the depths of every kind of astrology, philosophy, religion, etc. You can of course manipulate matter with any amount of actions/intents... But that is not what is being asked here and there is no attack as far as I've perceived this on any of those systems of knowledge.

Here we are in a Buddhist forum and the method we can discuss is Dharma as it is taught by our teachers and lineages. As the reference point for the OP's question within the Dharma goes back to the nature of emptiness, the action that will be most beneficial in helping decide, and the karma the OP decides is the least of all harms for the particular situation.

The fundamental and most important question back to the OP about doing a spell would be... Will it provide more benefit than it will cost you in the context of your path/practice?

Again, it comes back to context and motivations.

There are only decisions and consequences. The rest is attributed.
:meditate:
If someone performs divination or rituals for a specific purpose and they are not doing so within the context of Buddhist Refuge, but with an expectation of worldly benefit, then their karma will ripen as suffering.

There is a world of difference between a Lama performing mirror divination using Yudronma, and simply picking up tarot cards and channelling spirits or energies which are not within the context of Dharma.

Motivation in this case has two elements - the motivation of the person requesting the divination and the motivation of the person providing it. Both reap what they sow. Attribution and 'clarity' are irrelevant to karma vipaka.

There will be no benefit to your path and practice unless it is wholesome in that context, and there is no trade-off between the 'cost' in vipaka and the wordly 'benefit'. It isn't for us to attribute anything, just to be aware that certain karma reaps suffering and other karma reaps liberation.

I can see no context in which worldly 'spells' or 'divinations' can result in anything other than suffering, and the perception of 'success or 'pleasure' resulting from a divination or spell does not alter the nature of that vipaka.
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Re: is doing spell is ok in Buddhism?

Post by DiamondMeru » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:36 pm

Tibetan saint Milarepa was trained in sorcery to kill his family’s enemies. His mother trained him to use magic against others and he gained realization from this bad karma which led him to train as the Master Marpa’s slave. He finished his bad karma after nine years of repenting and learned the teachings from Marpa. He gained enlightenment and went on to teach other masters Gampopa and Rechungpa.

Perhaps he had to go down the wrong path first to attain enlightenment. Magic may be negative but it served as a catalyst for enlightenment.
I think the reason Jetsun Milarepa is so popular is because he was a sorcerer who became enlightened. Magic is alluring and captures the imagination, that is why it seems like an answer to our problems but it is the individual who needs to look inward for answers.

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Re: is doing spell is ok in Buddhism?

Post by Ogyen » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:15 am

Mantrik wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:48 pm
Ogyen wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:48 pm
At the end of the day these are all invented categorizations to explain experiences... To turn information into knowledge. I have done readings for over 1000 people in my life, readings of all sorts from cards, charts, stones, sticks, etc. It's all comes down to the same thing: clarity. I have done this as a practice because people seem to obtain some benefit from the insights they get, and come back years later letting me know it all went and I trust the process.

At this point, after studying so many systems, philosophy and esoterica in general, I've come to understand life in a fairly simple way with 2 questions before doing anything: does it provide a real benefit? What is the cost of the action?

Of course you can't always see the cost upfront, many costs are hidden because we see with unclear eyes. I've learned the cost of knowledge is usually a fairly steep price, and it is part of the human process.

When asking does it provide a real benefit, it has a lot to do with motivations. I have refuted readings requested when I could clearly see this would not provide a benefit for the person thst would outweigh how they would use it to go deeper in some delusion to feed their sense of self-importance. I actively choose to not contribute to that.

There are countless systems to organize data and use and manipulate manifested reality, from lighting candles, going to church, temple, synagogue, dancing dervishes, reading chicken entrails, studying the depths of every kind of astrology, philosophy, religion, etc. You can of course manipulate matter with any amount of actions/intents... But that is not what is being asked here and there is no attack as far as I've perceived this on any of those systems of knowledge.

Here we are in a Buddhist forum and the method we can discuss is Dharma as it is taught by our teachers and lineages. As the reference point for the OP's question within the Dharma goes back to the nature of emptiness, the action that will be most beneficial in helping decide, and the karma the OP decides is the least of all harms for the particular situation.

The fundamental and most important question back to the OP about doing a spell would be... Will it provide more benefit than it will cost you in the context of your path/practice?

Again, it comes back to context and motivations.

There are only decisions and consequences. The rest is attributed.
:meditate:
If someone performs divination or rituals for a specific purpose and they are not doing so within the context of Buddhist Refuge, but with an expectation of worldly benefit, then their karma will ripen as suffering.

There is a world of difference between a Lama performing mirror divination using Yudronma, and simply picking up tarot cards and channelling spirits or energies which are not within the context of Dharma.

Motivation in this case has two elements - the motivation of the person requesting the divination and the motivation of the person providing it. Both reap what they sow. Attribution and 'clarity' are irrelevant to karma vipaka.

There will be no benefit to your path and practice unless it is wholesome in that context, and there is no trade-off between the 'cost' in vipaka and the wordly 'benefit'. It isn't for us to attribute anything, just to be aware that certain karma reaps suffering and other karma reaps liberation.

I can see no context in which worldly 'spells' or 'divinations' can result in anything other than suffering, and the perception of 'success or 'pleasure' resulting from a divination or spell does not alter the nature of that vipaka.
I dig it. I think we were talking about two different things. And I agree with you.
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The Heart Drive - nosce te ipsum

"To love. To be loved. To never forget your own insignificance. To never get used to the unspeakable violence and the vulgar disparity of life around you. To seek joy in the saddest places. To pursue beauty to its lair. To never simplify what is complicated or complicate what is simple. To respect strength, never power. Above all, to watch. To try and understand. To never look away. And never, never, to forget." –Arundhati Roy

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Re: is doing spell is ok in Buddhism?

Post by ShineeSeoul » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:30 am

Mantrik wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:48 pm
Ogyen wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:48 pm
At the end of the day these are all invented categorizations to explain experiences... To turn information into knowledge. I have done readings for over 1000 people in my life, readings of all sorts from cards, charts, stones, sticks, etc. It's all comes down to the same thing: clarity. I have done this as a practice because people seem to obtain some benefit from the insights they get, and come back years later letting me know it all went and I trust the process.

At this point, after studying so many systems, philosophy and esoterica in general, I've come to understand life in a fairly simple way with 2 questions before doing anything: does it provide a real benefit? What is the cost of the action?

Of course you can't always see the cost upfront, many costs are hidden because we see with unclear eyes. I've learned the cost of knowledge is usually a fairly steep price, and it is part of the human process.

When asking does it provide a real benefit, it has a lot to do with motivations. I have refuted readings requested when I could clearly see this would not provide a benefit for the person thst would outweigh how they would use it to go deeper in some delusion to feed their sense of self-importance. I actively choose to not contribute to that.

There are countless systems to organize data and use and manipulate manifested reality, from lighting candles, going to church, temple, synagogue, dancing dervishes, reading chicken entrails, studying the depths of every kind of astrology, philosophy, religion, etc. You can of course manipulate matter with any amount of actions/intents... But that is not what is being asked here and there is no attack as far as I've perceived this on any of those systems of knowledge.

Here we are in a Buddhist forum and the method we can discuss is Dharma as it is taught by our teachers and lineages. As the reference point for the OP's question within the Dharma goes back to the nature of emptiness, the action that will be most beneficial in helping decide, and the karma the OP decides is the least of all harms for the particular situation.

The fundamental and most important question back to the OP about doing a spell would be... Will it provide more benefit than it will cost you in the context of your path/practice?

Again, it comes back to context and motivations.

There are only decisions and consequences. The rest is attributed.
:meditate:
If someone performs divination or rituals for a specific purpose and they are not doing so within the context of Buddhist Refuge, but with an expectation of worldly benefit, then their karma will ripen as suffering.

There is a world of difference between a Lama performing mirror divination using Yudronma, and simply picking up tarot cards and channelling spirits or energies which are not within the context of Dharma.

Motivation in this case has two elements - the motivation of the person requesting the divination and the motivation of the person providing it. Both reap what they sow. Attribution and 'clarity' are irrelevant to karma vipaka.

There will be no benefit to your path and practice unless it is wholesome in that context, and there is no trade-off between the 'cost' in vipaka and the wordly 'benefit'. It isn't for us to attribute anything, just to be aware that certain karma reaps suffering and other karma reaps liberation.

I can see no context in which worldly 'spells' or 'divinations' can result in anything other than suffering, and the perception of 'success or 'pleasure' resulting from a divination or spell does not alter the nature of that vipaka.
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:18 pm
ShineeSeoul wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:16 am
Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:13 pm
Can't you just PRAY TO BUDDHA
Instead of all the mumbo-jumbo ?????
I have prayed to Buddhas for long and many time

and I am sad to say nothing has changed :(
Unfortunately, praying or practicing with a selfish motivation to get worldly benefits makes it difficult to get the benefit.
a lots here in this forum assume things thats aren't true, it certainly aren't selfish when helping entire family out, plus I need this money also for Dharma practice, you guys just judge here, and you are not supposed to judge as buddhist, but any way, I am staying in arab muslim country already mentioned that, so I can't practice buddhism here nor find any teacher, so one of my main motivation of getting money is to get out of here and go other country where its possible for me to practice buddhism with teacher rather than just trying to do it in my room through online
and whenever I pray, I also said may happiness peace prosperity comes to all living beings, so if I get the money, I will help living being as much as possible, I always says that actually

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Re: is doing spell is ok in Buddhism?

Post by ShineeSeoul » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:45 am

Jeff H wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:41 pm
I had another thought on this matter just as I was waking up this morning. I am generally in the camp that thinks magic is a contrary commitment and therefore in conflict with Dharma. However, as Ogyen pointed out, none of us can possibly know your situation. And the fact that you are asking strangers on a public forum indicates some level of doubt on your part.

But the other example that occurred to me is, I’ve never heard a Buddhist teacher say that when you are ill you should exclusively consider how you created the karma to make you ill and strive to create better karma to avoid similar illness in the future. If you’re ill, go to the doctor first. Take the cure. Then work on the karmic aspect. With all the advice you’ve received here, if you believe your intention for using wealth-generating magic is in line with Mahayana principles, then maybe it is the right course for you in this instance.
I honestly, don't see anything contradicting Buddhism by using herbs, oils etc..I just don't see it, and I think when Buddha said its low arts, he meant to describe what brahmin was doing, they sacrifice animals and do spells which involve spirits and harms other people like black magic
I see spells to be same like law of attraction, so thats why I don't see problem with it, but I am asking here bcz I don't know much about spells and have heard some stories of people have harmed of spells, but I have heard if you say harm none, then its not going to harm any one, but have't have experience with that, just heard of it

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Re: is doing spell is ok in Buddhism?

Post by pueraeternus » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:50 am

Mantrik wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:48 pm
If someone performs divination or rituals for a specific purpose and they are not doing so within the context of Buddhist Refuge, but with an expectation of worldly benefit, then their karma will ripen as suffering.

There is a world of difference between a Lama performing mirror divination using Yudronma, and simply picking up tarot cards and channelling spirits or energies which are not within the context of Dharma.

Motivation in this case has two elements - the motivation of the person requesting the divination and the motivation of the person providing it. Both reap what they sow. Attribution and 'clarity' are irrelevant to karma vipaka.

There will be no benefit to your path and practice unless it is wholesome in that context, and there is no trade-off between the 'cost' in vipaka and the wordly 'benefit'. It isn't for us to attribute anything, just to be aware that certain karma reaps suffering and other karma reaps liberation.

I can see no context in which worldly 'spells' or 'divinations' can result in anything other than suffering, and the perception of 'success or 'pleasure' resulting from a divination or spell does not alter the nature of that vipaka.
In general there are all sorts of practices in Buddhism (even in Theravada) that brings worldly benefits such as wealth and health. The idea behind it is to resolve immediate suffering of sentient beings so that they may have a peace of mind and may be able to focus on dharma practice once their immediate dire situation is resolved. So things like magic is usually just a tool and by itself is not "liberative" or "non-liberative". The crux of the issue is what kind of magic one is talking about.

Magical power can be obtained by various fashions, and generally can be classified in 2 ways - the power that comes from within, or power that comes from without. Most magical systems are a combination of both or veers more towards power from external sources. Wiccans generally have to at least cultivate a connection to the Lord and Lady and that damages Refuge. So is Asatru (Nordic gods), Hermeticism (Egyptian), etc. So I don't see how magical practitioners can be Buddhists at the same time.

You could develop powers from within by not drawing power from such external forces but that takes a long time and effort to develop - it's basically honing your concentration and samadhi by various methods. If you do that, you don't have much time or focus left for Buddhist practice. And why bother? Buddhism itself has many ways of developing abilities if that is what one seeks.

Even developing powers via these entities takes a lot of time and effort. Of course, if one is desperate, then one can call upon lower spiritual entities to gain immediate benefit, but that is always a losing proposition and payback is lot worse.

Magic is not easy. And when you start to really develop some skill, then sometimes that's when the trouble starts - you either become careless and abuse your abilities, or you attract the wrong type of entities that messes up your life. That's when you go to the nearest Buddhist monk or lama for help.
"Men must want to do things out of their own innermost drives. People, not commercial organizations or chains of command, are what make great civilizations work. Every civilization depends upon the quality of the individuals it produces. If you over-organize humans, over-legalize them, suppress their urge to greatness - they cannot work and their civilization collapses."
- A letter to CHOAM, attributed to the Preacher

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Re: is doing spell is ok in Buddhism?

Post by pueraeternus » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:55 am

ShineeSeoul wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:45 am
I honestly, don't see anything contradicting Buddhism by using herbs, oils etc..I just don't see it, and I think when Buddha said its low arts, he meant to describe what brahmin was doing, they sacrifice animals and do spells which involve spirits and harms other people like black magic
I see spells to be same like law of attraction, so thats why I don't see problem with it, but I am asking here bcz I don't know much about spells and have heard some stories of people have harmed of spells, but I have heard if you say harm none, then its not going to harm any one, but have't have experience with that, just heard of it
You won't have success in such spells because you never developed any skill in such things. It will take a while. And is it safe to be caught practicing sorcery in your country?

I agree with some of the previous posters about Green Tara - she is known to have heed the cries of sentient beings pretty quickly, even non-Buddhist ones.
"Men must want to do things out of their own innermost drives. People, not commercial organizations or chains of command, are what make great civilizations work. Every civilization depends upon the quality of the individuals it produces. If you over-organize humans, over-legalize them, suppress their urge to greatness - they cannot work and their civilization collapses."
- A letter to CHOAM, attributed to the Preacher

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Re: is doing spell is ok in Buddhism?

Post by Ogyen » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:00 am

ShineeSeoul wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:30 am
a lots here in this forum assume things thats aren't true
This is true. Also without a proper context for a specific question you posed, it's hard to provide an answer which adequately addresses the question. Apologies, no judgment from this side of the screen...
ShineeSeoul wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:30 am
I can't practice buddhism here nor find any teacher, so one of my main motivation of getting money is to get out of here and go other country where its possible for me to practice buddhism with teacher rather than just trying to do it in my room through online
I have been in a similar situation for a long time and my husband also couldn't openly practice either where he was. But with practice even if it's in a room online, you'll generate the secondary causes for liberating the conditions to change your situation. We did. It has taken me over 10 years. It may not be a fast change but if you persevere in your efforts you will solve your own problems.

Apologies again if you felt judged. I hope you find the answers you need to be well and at peace.

:meditate:
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The Heart Drive - nosce te ipsum

"To love. To be loved. To never forget your own insignificance. To never get used to the unspeakable violence and the vulgar disparity of life around you. To seek joy in the saddest places. To pursue beauty to its lair. To never simplify what is complicated or complicate what is simple. To respect strength, never power. Above all, to watch. To try and understand. To never look away. And never, never, to forget." –Arundhati Roy

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Re: is doing spell is ok in Buddhism?

Post by pueraeternus » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:02 am

ShineeSeoul wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:30 am
you guys just judge here, and you are not supposed to judge as buddhist
Oh you will be surprised. We do that all the time.
so one of my main motivation of getting money is to get out of here and go other country where its possible for me to practice buddhism with teacher rather than just trying to do it in my room through online
and whenever I pray, I also said may happiness peace prosperity comes to all living beings, so if I get the money, I will help living being as much as possible, I always says that actually
Well, that is a good motivation. Then instead of investing effort and energy on dubious spells from the internet, invest in a single devotional practice of a Buddha or Bodhisattva figure. Such as Green Tara or maybe one of the East Asian Avalokiteshvara forms. Learn the mantra and with faith, develop concentration by bringing to mind the figure and repeating the mantra.
"Men must want to do things out of their own innermost drives. People, not commercial organizations or chains of command, are what make great civilizations work. Every civilization depends upon the quality of the individuals it produces. If you over-organize humans, over-legalize them, suppress their urge to greatness - they cannot work and their civilization collapses."
- A letter to CHOAM, attributed to the Preacher

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Grigoris
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Re: is doing spell is ok in Buddhism?

Post by Grigoris » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:27 am

DiamondMeru wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:36 pm
Tibetan saint Milarepa was trained in sorcery to kill his family’s enemies. His mother trained him to use magic against others and he gained realization from this bad karma which led him to train as the Master Marpa’s slave.
First of all: it was not his mother that trained him in black magic. Secondly: NOBODY gains enlightenment via unwholesome actions, you gain enlightenment through the accumulation of merit and wisdom.
He finished his bad karma after nine years of repenting and learned the teachings from Marpa.
Thirdly: one does not "finish bad karma". He purified the future results of his past actions via his training by Marpa. His "slavery" to Marpa was his purification practice and his accumulation of merit. The teachings he received from Marpa was his accumulation of wisdom.
Perhaps he had to go down the wrong path first to attain enlightenment.
Possibly. Though it is much more likely that he met Marpa due to some REALLY damn good past karma. Actually, that seems a much more plausible explanation.
Magic may be negative but it served as a catalyst for enlightenment.
No. It was his remorse at his actions and the fact that they lead him to almost getting killed that acted as a catalyst for his seeking out Marpa. Otherwise he just would have just continued practicing magic and gone for a few thousand rebirths in the lower realms as a consequence of his actions.
I think the reason Jetsun Milarepa is so popular is because he was a sorcerer who became enlightened. Magic is alluring and captures the imagination, that is why it seems like an answer to our problems but it is the individual who needs to look inward for answers.
This I agree with.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: is doing spell is ok in Buddhism?

Post by Grigoris » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:36 am

ShineeSeoul wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:30 am
a lots here in this forum assume things thats aren't true, it certainly aren't selfish when helping entire family out, plus I need this money also for Dharma practice, you guys just judge here, and you are not supposed to judge as buddhist, but any way, I am staying in arab muslim country already mentioned that, so I can't practice buddhism here nor find any teacher, so one of my main motivation of getting money is to get out of here and go other country where its possible for me to practice buddhism with teacher rather than just trying to do it in my room through online
and whenever I pray, I also said may happiness peace prosperity comes to all living beings, so if I get the money, I will help living being as much as possible, I always says that actually
Look, there are different ways to accumulate merit so that it will ripen as positive circumstances and they do not require you wearing a Buddhist badge on your forehead. Service to the poor, powerless and needy is one way to do it, if you do not have the monetary means to engage in generosity. If you do this it is almost 100% guaranteed that you will gain positive results. More likely than just sitting around petitioning Buddhas. YOU have to generate the causes for wealth. YOU have to accumulate the merit.

Now if you think that by watching a youtube video and marinating some money in salt and herbs, like you are preparing a coin currency kebab, will solve your problems, well... If only it was that easy. If it was then every fool that watched that video would now be a billionaire.
I see spells to be same like law of attraction...
And let's say it does work. What is the power that lead to it working? To who/what will you generate a karmic debt? What will that karmic debt be? What will you have attracted?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: is doing spell is ok in Buddhism?

Post by Aryjna » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:49 am

ShineeSeoul wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:30 am
Mantrik wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:48 pm
Ogyen wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:48 pm
At the end of the day these are all invented categorizations to explain experiences... To turn information into knowledge. I have done readings for over 1000 people in my life, readings of all sorts from cards, charts, stones, sticks, etc. It's all comes down to the same thing: clarity. I have done this as a practice because people seem to obtain some benefit from the insights they get, and come back years later letting me know it all went and I trust the process.

At this point, after studying so many systems, philosophy and esoterica in general, I've come to understand life in a fairly simple way with 2 questions before doing anything: does it provide a real benefit? What is the cost of the action?

Of course you can't always see the cost upfront, many costs are hidden because we see with unclear eyes. I've learned the cost of knowledge is usually a fairly steep price, and it is part of the human process.

When asking does it provide a real benefit, it has a lot to do with motivations. I have refuted readings requested when I could clearly see this would not provide a benefit for the person thst would outweigh how they would use it to go deeper in some delusion to feed their sense of self-importance. I actively choose to not contribute to that.

There are countless systems to organize data and use and manipulate manifested reality, from lighting candles, going to church, temple, synagogue, dancing dervishes, reading chicken entrails, studying the depths of every kind of astrology, philosophy, religion, etc. You can of course manipulate matter with any amount of actions/intents... But that is not what is being asked here and there is no attack as far as I've perceived this on any of those systems of knowledge.

Here we are in a Buddhist forum and the method we can discuss is Dharma as it is taught by our teachers and lineages. As the reference point for the OP's question within the Dharma goes back to the nature of emptiness, the action that will be most beneficial in helping decide, and the karma the OP decides is the least of all harms for the particular situation.

The fundamental and most important question back to the OP about doing a spell would be... Will it provide more benefit than it will cost you in the context of your path/practice?

Again, it comes back to context and motivations.

There are only decisions and consequences. The rest is attributed.
:meditate:
If someone performs divination or rituals for a specific purpose and they are not doing so within the context of Buddhist Refuge, but with an expectation of worldly benefit, then their karma will ripen as suffering.

There is a world of difference between a Lama performing mirror divination using Yudronma, and simply picking up tarot cards and channelling spirits or energies which are not within the context of Dharma.

Motivation in this case has two elements - the motivation of the person requesting the divination and the motivation of the person providing it. Both reap what they sow. Attribution and 'clarity' are irrelevant to karma vipaka.

There will be no benefit to your path and practice unless it is wholesome in that context, and there is no trade-off between the 'cost' in vipaka and the wordly 'benefit'. It isn't for us to attribute anything, just to be aware that certain karma reaps suffering and other karma reaps liberation.

I can see no context in which worldly 'spells' or 'divinations' can result in anything other than suffering, and the perception of 'success or 'pleasure' resulting from a divination or spell does not alter the nature of that vipaka.
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:18 pm
ShineeSeoul wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:16 am


I have prayed to Buddhas for long and many time

and I am sad to say nothing has changed :(
Unfortunately, praying or practicing with a selfish motivation to get worldly benefits makes it difficult to get the benefit.
a lots here in this forum assume things thats aren't true, it certainly aren't selfish when helping entire family out, plus I need this money also for Dharma practice, you guys just judge here, and you are not supposed to judge as buddhist, but any way, I am staying in arab muslim country already mentioned that, so I can't practice buddhism here nor find any teacher, so one of my main motivation of getting money is to get out of here and go other country where its possible for me to practice buddhism with teacher rather than just trying to do it in my room through online
and whenever I pray, I also said may happiness peace prosperity comes to all living beings, so if I get the money, I will help living being as much as possible, I always says that actually
I am not judging, I understand that you have problems and probably a good overall motivation. It is not the same as just wanting a lot of money.

But it is rather objective. As far as I know, wishing for personal wealth, even with a good motivation, it is more difficult to get a result than if you are practicing with a less worldly aim. That doesn't mean it's impossible. Hopefuly you can get the result.

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