Rick wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 12:18 pmI'm a fan of the three-truths flavor of the two truths:
Conventional: Things are what they seem.
Conventional-Ultimate: Things are neither what they seem nor other than what they seem.
Ultimate: <no-thing = nonduality>
These are my words, my way of grokking the 2-3 truths, they are not meant to be taken as an alternative to the dharma teachings.
You will like this. I think it may provide a useful reference for Krodha and Sherab's discussion too.
Teaching the Relative and Ultimate Truths
The god said, “Mañjuśrī, what is the ultimate truth?”
Mañjuśrī said, “Divine son, if, on the ultimate level, ultimate truth becomes an object of body, speech, or mind, that is not ‘ultimate truth’ but relative truth itself. Rather, divine son, on the ultimate level, ultimate truth transcends all conventions.
It is without specific instances; it does not arise, does not cease, and is free from something to be expressed, an expression, something to be known, and knowledge. Divine son, the ultimate truth transcends everything up through the domain of omniscient wisdom that is endowed with the supreme of all aspects. Divine son, it has no engagement with, nor any turning back of, concepts and thoughts. Ultimately, there is no ‘far shore,’ there is no ‘this shore,’ nor is there a middle.
Divine son, although one indeed makes the exaggerated claim, ‘This is ultimate truth,’ that is not the same as saying, ‘Ultimate truth is like this.’ Divine son, ultimately, reality is unborn; thus, no conventions apply to it. That to which, on the ultimate level, no conventions apply, divine son, is ultimate truth. Thus, that is not like saying, ‘Ultimate truth is like this.’ [F.247.b] Divine son, the Thus-gone, worthy, perfect Buddha also says that ultimately all phenomena and all terms are false and deceptive phenomena.”
The god said, “How is it then, Mañjuśrī, that the Dharma taught by the Thus-gone One is not false?”
Mañjuśrī said, “Divine son, on the ultimate level, the Thus-gone One does not speak falsely. Nor does he speak truly. And why is that? Ultimately, divine son, the Thus-gone One has not arisen. And so, ultimately he speaks neither falsely nor truly. Divine son, what do you think? Are explanations given by magical creations of the Thus-gone One true or false?”
The god said, “Mañjuśrī, explanations given by magical creations of the Thus-gone One are not true, nor are they false. Why is that? Mañjuśrī, ultimately there is nothing truly established in that which is emanated by the Thus-gone One.”
Mañjuśrī said, “Divine son, so it is. The Thus-gone One knows that all phenomena are unestablished in the ultimate sense. Whatever is unestablished in the ultimate sense should not be called true nor should it be called false in the context of the ultimate. Why is that? Because ultimately all phenomena are unborn.”