Existence

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
[N.B. This is the forum that was called ‘Exploring Buddhism’. The new name simply describes it better.]
muni
Posts: 4788
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Existence

Post by muni » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:12 pm

the sand sometimes gets in our eyes. we don't understand the process but we just enjoy it.
Lol. Yes, big fun. :smile:

ultimately speaking everything we say is a playful distraction. we play with the 'one', Atman, big play, but still only play. only when we really know our true self can we go beyond it. break out of it. once it is gone, there is still concern about pain and discomfort. an element of 'self'ishness.

we need to use the relative words and descriptions in order to function and make things, in order to live. but all that is only a dream.
Dream. Tom is demonstrating to walk with a raft on his shoulders while i make serious sandcastles on the beach.

:anjali: x
Which human beings are “fortunate and connected?” They are the ones who generate love, compassion, and devotion, as well as the commitment to remain steadfast on the path until all beings are liberated. Venerable Khenpo Rinpoches.

Examining the faults of others will not benefit anyone and only leads to more disturbing emotions, blocking our path to liberation. Penor Rinpoche

muni
Posts: 4788
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Existence

Post by muni » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:16 am

White Lotus wrote: the absolute is something one does not know because it doesn't even know itself. it is unknowing.

non duality and non judgement are tools to point us towards unknowing, to let us know that the absolute cannot be known.
Not "unknowing" .
But it is clear that all I say, and even all what is written, and I even dare say, all words by Buddha- the Masters is not itself the knowing aspect of Nature we just learn, while they talk *from it as being it* because this Primordial Wisdom cannot be expressed. But there are Compassionate precious skills by Clear-Seeing-Awaken-Nature-Masters, and there are many additional methods for us available to help pointing to what cannot be expressed.
You say:
The absolute is something one does not know
I would say yes.

I can say this here above and many more, but that itself doesn't liberate. I keep repeating apprehensions by hearing, reading, reflecting, contemplating and so. While the meaning of Buddha is not one knowing about or one not knowing about, it is to be all freed from suffering. Other ways we do not need Buddhism.

For me when we say you don't know, it sounds like: you are suffering. Such fun.

No, serious now, perhaps all what we say is the playful dance of nature what cannot be expressed and all these can be inspirations.

Thanks for all this loving kindness.
:anjali: x
Which human beings are “fortunate and connected?” They are the ones who generate love, compassion, and devotion, as well as the commitment to remain steadfast on the path until all beings are liberated. Venerable Khenpo Rinpoches.

Examining the faults of others will not benefit anyone and only leads to more disturbing emotions, blocking our path to liberation. Penor Rinpoche

muni
Posts: 4788
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Existence

Post by muni » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:58 am

tkp67 wrote: I don't understand reincarnation and rebirth after this existence I do deeply sense karma as permeating this existence so poignantly that it drives my conscious.
To remain mindful? :namaste: oops yes.
Which human beings are “fortunate and connected?” They are the ones who generate love, compassion, and devotion, as well as the commitment to remain steadfast on the path until all beings are liberated. Venerable Khenpo Rinpoches.

Examining the faults of others will not benefit anyone and only leads to more disturbing emotions, blocking our path to liberation. Penor Rinpoche

White Lotus
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Existence

Post by White Lotus » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:16 pm

Not "unknowing" .
yes, not unknowing (when we talk about ultimates). that would be a fabrication. my understanding is limited. ha ha ha!
but also, not knowing! when professor Suzuki said knowing is ignorance, he implied that unknowing is true knowledge. however... fabrications, I don't know that I don't know. nor do I know that it is '' I don't know''. that would be a judgement... an element of prapanca, proliferation of words and thoughts. if I say that I know nothing, I have known something. words betray me here, but help me there. :smile:

*from it as being it*
"it" "being" both fabrications, judgments. in the Lankavatara sutra we are told that ''being" and "non-being" are an unhelpful dualism. Master Zenkei Shibayama reified ''it'', poor chap! it is, it isn't. Being (is) and non-being (isn't) are words that believe in existence. maya shows us in her dance that existence is a dream. a movie! is and isn't are the roots of Dharma. we forget about Dharma. poor us! really poor, we own nothing.

Muni, you have said that you are nothing, but that's a fabrication, a duality. I know that the great ones have spoken saying that everything is nothing and comes from nothing. this I don't know. but it seems to me just another judgment. even though a very clever one. some have said that being is nothing. but we forget about being and non-being. even though we have to live with it relatively speaking. but then what has to live with it? Me? not me. I? not I, one? not one. Zero? not zero.

what then? who knows! (awareness? but even that comes and goes.)

Primordial Wisdom cannot be expressed
yes!

But there are Compassionate precious skills


we have to know something if we want to live in this world. everything is judgement. every word is a judgement. all for practical living.

For me when we say you don't know, it sounds like: you are suffering. Such fun.
perhaps a certain kind of ignorance is bliss.

you are very kind Muni. you have taken me into a new garden to explore. I never realized how profound Tibetan wisdom is. you have shoved me through the door. :hug:

there is too much talk everywhere of ''True Self''. which is great, but doesn't go far enough. non-dual awareness is basically selfless, even though one has to live. basically selfless. life is easier. im not saying it's a doddle (easy), but there is a qualitative difference. Thank you Muni.

best wishes, Tom x
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

White Lotus
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Existence

Post by White Lotus » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:27 pm

Zero is an egg, it represents true self.

One is an iron bar, it also represents true self.

zero is one, one is zero. its when true self is seen within that it can be cracked by itself. so that it no longer is.

zero - one is a duality that is inseperable.

break out of the circle, emerge from the womb. crack the turtles egg. in the words of Chogyam Trungpa: "the cup must be broken."

how to do this? ask who is this here now? feel the true self, then 'crack'! the shell has disappeared.

:anjali:
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

muni
Posts: 4788
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Existence

Post by muni » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:46 am

All fabrications-judgements, whether helpful, whether not. Language is dual. The circle of awareness-nonawareness cannot be broken by proving-explaining what cannot be explained.

I am ignorance, this ignorance itself is not having by itself any fabricated characteristics, it is in that particular way not that different than Buddha Nature. Perhaps the ignorance is a nonexistence, because it is dream but experienced as existence. The dream is demonstrating opposing existence-nonexistence.
Dream as well to demonstrate "opposing" wisdom.

All what I sell here, is fabrication-judgement, nothing other, all by the nature of "proving", while there is nothing to prove.
How to prove that, I must reflect about.

:anjali:
Which human beings are “fortunate and connected?” They are the ones who generate love, compassion, and devotion, as well as the commitment to remain steadfast on the path until all beings are liberated. Venerable Khenpo Rinpoches.

Examining the faults of others will not benefit anyone and only leads to more disturbing emotions, blocking our path to liberation. Penor Rinpoche

White Lotus
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Existence

Post by White Lotus » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:32 am

Muni, you sometimes talk about 'nature', and True Nature. I think you mean by these two words the same thing. these days I don't see an objective nature. the nearest I come to nature is 'awareness'. though I neither see emptiness-form nor don't see it I am looking for a nature and I'm not sure I can find one!

please tell me how you experience nature. I don't seem to experience anything and yet I am not without experience. I once would have called emptiness-form nature and original self as nature, but I'm not sure I find anything particular to call nature now. I don't think I can say that I experience nature. only the dream, only maya. do you mean maya when you say nature. or do you mean awareness? what do you mean Muni?

best wishes, Tom x :anjali:
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

White Lotus
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Existence

Post by White Lotus » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:51 am

Dear Muni,
The circle of awareness-nonawareness cannot be broken by proving-explaining what cannot be explained.
interesting that you describe awareness-non awareness as a circle!
The dream is demonstrating opposing existence-nonexistence.


being-non being are a dream. is and isn't are a dream, but we have to live in it. pain! joy! oh gosh!
while there is nothing to prove.
prove-disprove, maya! ignorance-knowledge! maya. is there anything besides maya? in the Lankavatara sutra, a zen favourite, we are told all is mind. I take that to mean awareness. if we try to understand knowledge-ignorance we have to enter into judgment. I can't seem to avoid thinking/judging. but it doesn't matter all is just a mental game.

you are truly appreciated Muni, but i'm not sure whether all my typing is just a joke, meaningless fun. vanity.

I liked you'r joke about you building sand castles while I lugged the boat around on my back! you make me sound like a turtle! :smile:
Perhaps the ignorance is a nonexistence, because it is dream but experienced as existence.
perhaps so... its all beyond me! :rolleye:

have a nice day Muni!

best wishes, Tom x :anjali:
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

muni
Posts: 4788
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Existence

Post by muni » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:02 am

White Lotus wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:32 am
Muni, you sometimes talk about 'nature', and True Nature. I think you mean by these two words the same thing. these days I don't see an objective nature. the nearest I come to nature is 'awareness'. though I neither see emptiness-form nor don't see it I am looking for a nature and I'm not sure I can find one!

please tell me how you experience nature. I don't seem to experience anything and yet I am not without experience. I once would have called emptiness-form nature and original self as nature, but I'm not sure I find anything particular to call nature now. I don't think I can say that I experience nature. only the dream, only maya. do you mean maya when you say nature. or do you mean awareness? what do you mean Muni?

best wishes, Tom x :anjali:
Yes. Actually is there anything other? It is somehow again an opposition when grasped. Not dream but awaken. Nature like it appears-is, primordial goodness,...……...Many labels are given, but nothing need to be proved or disproved. It is however necessary to make temporary these distinctions to be sure there is a way out of suffering. But not to hold on these distinctions as being real existences. It is subtle grasping like there is on one side dream and at the other side awaken. Or: a view as there are those there who dream and those there who are awaken.
Then it would not be emptiness form- form emptiness, but biased partially emptiness form-form emptiness AND the rest form only or so. So some are out. Some are nature, others not. Clinging, can be only own clinging.

*though I neither see emptiness-form nor don't see*


All is awaken and even the dreaming suffering we experience is just the play of it, Tom?


Words come so easy.... Their temporary use, without clinging, very useful play, for pointing beyond intellectual understanding while intellectual mind in its seriousness is building sand castles. One good thing: I cannot make many.


And waves are coming. :anjali: x
Which human beings are “fortunate and connected?” They are the ones who generate love, compassion, and devotion, as well as the commitment to remain steadfast on the path until all beings are liberated. Venerable Khenpo Rinpoches.

Examining the faults of others will not benefit anyone and only leads to more disturbing emotions, blocking our path to liberation. Penor Rinpoche

White Lotus
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Existence

Post by White Lotus » Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:25 pm

Dear Muni,

if we say that ignorance is knowledge then we are using non duality in its sense of oneness. or you could say its sense of zeroness (unknowing - zero known).

if we say things are not ignorance - knowledge then we have broken the circle, beyond knowledge and ignorance. neither known nor unknown.
if I say 'unknown' that is a fabrication, a judgement and in itself is a form of knowing.

in Buddhist non duality we just flow, or stutter. it doesn't matter. just know, just don't know. free to come and go.

all of this thought is judgment/words. like you I am not sure how helpful it is! perhaps we are not meant to understand.

I see neither awareness nor non awareness. that I can see. however I don't think I can say that I see neither suffering nor comfort. I still suffer. so... though there is no self suffering, there is still suffering. sad! oh well.

best wishes, Tom x :anjali:
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

White Lotus
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Existence

Post by White Lotus » Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:40 pm

All is awaken and even the dreaming suffering we experience is just the play of it, Tom?
yes, in a way there is no suffering, except in a dream and happening to no one. just a tragedy on the stage... all fun! having broken the circle, I suppose that it must be that way. there has been a refinement of suffering and comfort. its like when you renounce awareness you are still in a way aware. not aware and yet aware. when you renounce ordinary love you enter true love. will have to wait and see how apparent suffering affects me!
:consoling:
nothing need to be proved or disproved
im not sure anything can be proved. we can only talk about our own experience, but just prove anyway and I'm sure it will help someone.

A view as there are those there who dream and those there who are awaken. Then it would not be emptiness form- form emptiness. it would be saying I have what you don't have and so there would be an unnatural separation. actually everyone is aware just as they are. all are buddhas.

take care Muni and many blessings!

best wishes, Tom x :anjali:
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

White Lotus
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Existence

Post by White Lotus » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:40 am

Dear Muni, I am thinking about suffering. suffering-comfort. apparent opposites that depend on the existence-non existence dream. suffering - non suffering is part of the dream. it seems that in non dual awareness there is not suffering - non suffering. these words are a fabrication, and yet sometimes I experience pain in this dream. how do we approach suffering Muni? is there anything to escape, prove? escape is a duality.

if we try to prove that there is nothing to prove we must first prove the non duality of things... so is there nothing to prove?

at the moment I am baffled by suffering. what does it mean, if anything and how does it relate to non dual awareness. I have been told that to overcome all suffering I need to forget myself. I have no self and yet I see there is subtle grasping of ego still.

I hope I am not wasting your time Muni. I am particularly interested about your understanding of suffering and how it relates to existence... the dream.

it seems to me that in non duality there is no recognition of suffering - non suffering, these are just judgments/fabrications. but is that realistic?

I want to ask you a serious question Muni... have I taken too much of your time on this thread? I don't want to bother you. you also have other posts to respond to and I am worried that I am monopolising too much of your precious time.

I think I now understand most of what you have told me about non dual awareness. there is no need to understand it, but I wont understand that unless I understand it!

I hope you have a nice day, many blessings upon you and your readers.

best wishes, Tom x :anjali:
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

muni
Posts: 4788
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Existence

Post by muni » Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:25 pm

A view as there are those there who dream and those there who are awaken. Then it would not be emptiness form- form emptiness. it would be saying I have what you don't have and so there would be an unnatural separation. actually everyone is aware just as they are. all are buddhas.
Thank you for your blessings, Tom.
suffering, what does it mean, if anything and how does it relate to non dual awareness. I have been told that to overcome all suffering I need to forget myself.
Yes. Grasping feelings-thoughts => self arises => thereby other arise => clinging = suffering.
How you would say, Tom?
it seems to me that in non duality there is no recognition of suffering - non suffering, these are just judgments/fabrications. but is that realistic?
Because there is no clinging, yes.
I want to ask you a serious question Muni... have I taken too much of your time on this thread?
No Tom, what is not cannot be taken. Many thanks. :anjali: x
Which human beings are “fortunate and connected?” They are the ones who generate love, compassion, and devotion, as well as the commitment to remain steadfast on the path until all beings are liberated. Venerable Khenpo Rinpoches.

Examining the faults of others will not benefit anyone and only leads to more disturbing emotions, blocking our path to liberation. Penor Rinpoche

muni
Posts: 4788
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Existence

Post by muni » Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:00 am

it seems to me that in non duality there is no recognition of suffering - non suffering, these are just judgments/fabrications. but is that realistic?
I am not sure to have understood this question. In any case in Bodhicitta suffering is recognized, if not there would be no guidance possible to come out.

All the best Tom. :anjali: x
Which human beings are “fortunate and connected?” They are the ones who generate love, compassion, and devotion, as well as the commitment to remain steadfast on the path until all beings are liberated. Venerable Khenpo Rinpoches.

Examining the faults of others will not benefit anyone and only leads to more disturbing emotions, blocking our path to liberation. Penor Rinpoche

White Lotus
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Existence

Post by White Lotus » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:35 pm

Dear Muni,
it seems to me that in non duality there is no recognition of suffering - non suffering, these are just judgments/fabrications. but is that realistic?

I am not sure to have understood this question. In any case in Bodhicitta suffering is recognized, if not there would be no guidance possible to come out.
I love what you say that in Bodhicitta suffering is recognised. does that mean it is loved and cherished as a friend that gives us wisdom? or that the standard approach towards bodhicitta is loathing suffering.

suffering - non suffering is a fabrication, a judgement, a false duality. we cannot say we suffer, nor that we don't suffer. things just are. if I grasp the word suffer then I suffer. actually where there is no self there is no grasping of words. no grasping of feelings such as pain. there is pain but no pain.
ha ha ha ha!

I feel pain, oh yes, I feel pain, but perhaps it is as though I didn't suffer, being no subject to suffer, and yet having a body that feels pain. I read in the Lankavatara sutra yesterday that tathagatas feel pain, but endure it for the sake of beings.... so a Buddha feels pain, but does not suffer?

I wonder what its like to be a Buddha?

in non duality there is no Buddha - worldling. that's a false duality, a convenient grasping, but not really helpful.

dear Muni. I am so glad that my dialogue with you isn't wasting too much of you'r time. :smile:

how do you deal with suffering? what is your attitude towards it?

there is no good - bad, comfort - suffering in non duality, but is that realistic? (is that practical). we know that there is no self - non self, but still we have to feed and clothe ourselves and avoid harm.

as you can tell (see), I am focusing on the idea of suffering and how we can accept it. I think this is important and would appreciate your advice in this matter (topic). even though I have been practicing for quite a long time I still feel that I know very little about suffering and how I should approach (live with) it.

I feel this is a crucial thing in our existence and 'at the root' (fundamental) of existence.

best wishes, Tom x :anjali:
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

White Lotus
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Existence

Post by White Lotus » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:50 pm

suffering, what does it mean, if anything and how does it relate to non dual awareness. I have been told that to overcome all suffering I need to forget myself.

Yes. Grasping feelings-thoughts => self arises => thereby other arise => clinging = suffering.
How you would say, Tom?
yes, that sounds right, but only ''apparently'' is there self-other-suffering. duality is only apparent. actually there is no duality. just a dream, a mirage a bubble, but still it sometimes hurts. perhaps we shouldn't take our pain so seriously, but that might not be realistic (practical).

all of these beautiful and ugly thoughts I have are just dancing in a sunset. just play. surreal poetry. everything I say comes down to: PLAY.

we are just wasting time! and isn't it fun?! :rolling:

I don't think its natural nor possible to avoid grasping feelings and thoughts for me at this stage in my path. but I would say that grasping feelings and thoughts can be fun. just grasp. if you have no self, then there is fundamentally no grasping. :tongue:

best wishes, Tom x :anjali:
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

muni
Posts: 4788
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Existence

Post by muni » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:00 am

Question:
I wonder what its like to be a Buddha?
Answer:
in non duality there is no Buddha - worldling. that's a false duality, a convenient grasping, but not really helpful.
May I accept you answered the question? (in a way how it is not)

:namaste:
Which human beings are “fortunate and connected?” They are the ones who generate love, compassion, and devotion, as well as the commitment to remain steadfast on the path until all beings are liberated. Venerable Khenpo Rinpoches.

Examining the faults of others will not benefit anyone and only leads to more disturbing emotions, blocking our path to liberation. Penor Rinpoche

White Lotus
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Existence

Post by White Lotus » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:38 am

Yes. Grasping feelings-thoughts => self arises => thereby other arise => clinging = suffering.
How you would say, Tom?
I have thought about this formula and it seems to be very powerful. it is from grasping thoughts and feelings that ultimately there is suffering. however, it seems that pain can be so bad that it forces negative thoughts and feelings. to me it is interesting that a Buddha experiences pain and yet does not suffer.

in non duality there is not suffering-comfort. in non duality what should our attitude towards suffering be? perhaps we just don't fixate on it. suffering comes. suffering goes, it is not grasped nor dwelt in.

how should we practice with intense pain?

Bodhicitta is also a fabrication, but a helpful one. is there a need for us to have such a negative view of samsara once we have realised non dual awareness? surely it is not samsara-nirvana. it is not even ''just is''. maya.
it seems to me that in non duality there is no recognition of suffering - non suffering, these are just judgments/fabrications. but is that realistic?
the circle of suffering-nonsuffering is broken, theoretically, when self has gone. there is no longer anyone to suffer and yet there may still be experience of suffering, but not by a self.

one neither suffers nor does not suffer. there is neither existence nor non-existence. neither self nor no self. it is all a dream.

best wishes, Tom x :anjali:
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

muni
Posts: 4788
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Existence

Post by muni » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:39 am

it seems that pain can be so bad that it forces negative thoughts and feelings.
Yes that too. Perhaps it is by the experienced pain or other triggers that it is possible to see how thoughts and feelings follow like lava stream out of an eruption in which awareness is then lost, or better said is then hidden. However it is possible to become aware of a reaction into the volcano, before anything turns in experience-happening. Awareness or what other protection can be?
Bodhicitta is also a fabrication, but a helpful one.
Like all the explained dharma is a fabrication and all helpful to point to what is liberating dharma.
is there a need for us to have such a negative view of samsara once we have realised non dual awareness?
The desire to be freed from samsara, first having aversion for it due to suffering, what bring us to liberating teachings and apply them. And by that realizing when awareness is hidden, consciousness react by coarse or subtle grasping and bad experiences follow.

Or mind binds - or mind liberates. There is no other samsara, nor nirvana.
the circle of suffering-nonsuffering is broken, theoretically, when self has gone. there is no longer anyone to suffer and yet there may still be experience of suffering, but not by a self.
I agree theoretically. I guess it is therefore not overwhelming.

:anjali: x
Which human beings are “fortunate and connected?” They are the ones who generate love, compassion, and devotion, as well as the commitment to remain steadfast on the path until all beings are liberated. Venerable Khenpo Rinpoches.

Examining the faults of others will not benefit anyone and only leads to more disturbing emotions, blocking our path to liberation. Penor Rinpoche

User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 20137
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Existence

Post by Grigoris » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:16 am

White Lotus wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:38 am
the circle of suffering-nonsuffering is broken, theoretically, when self has gone. there is no longer anyone to suffer and yet there may still be experience of suffering, but not by a self.
No. As long as you have the five skandha there will be a sense of self. Liberation comes through understanding the dependently arisen nature of this idea of self. Liberation comes through breaking self-grasping and self-cherishing, especially as it normally is at the expense of others.

You cannot really get rid of the self, as it was never there to begin with. ;)

I recommend studying lojong (mind training).
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Locked

Return to “Dharma in Everyday Life”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: KeithA, tatpurusa and 75 guests