Swat Valley/Oddiyana

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
[N.B. This is the forum that was called ‘Exploring Buddhism’. The new name simply describes it better.]
Norwegian
Posts: 1398
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: Swat Valley/Oddiyana

Post by Norwegian » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:17 am

Grigoris wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:36 pm
Norwegian wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:03 pm
blah
Distance is not really an issue. Alexander the Great managed to get from Macedonia to the west bank of the Ganges by horse and foot.
Distance is definitely one issue, but another more important issue is that none of the locations and directions described in the original texts cited by Malcolm and found elsewhere would make any sense at all whatsoever if Oddiyana was in Odisha. But it makes perfect sense geographically if it is in Swat Valley. For example, Tajikistan is nowhere near Odisha, but Swat is very close (which means you can encounter people from Tajikistan in that region, as mentioned in Orgyen Rinchenpal's travel account). Peshawar is nowhere near Odisha, yet it's extremely close to Swat. You don't get to Odisha by first traveling to Jalandhara in Punjab, and from Jalandhara going north-west. Instead you get to Swat.

Anyways, you should definitely read Orgyen Rinchenpal's travel account to Oddiyana, as linked by Malcolm. It's quite interesting, and I think it leaves no doubts as to where Oddiyana is (or rather was), given the explanations of the various regions and places that were visited.
Grigoris wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:41 pm
Holy shit! My searches so far have turned up nothing! Thank you for that.
You're welcome.

Crazywisdom
Posts: 1552
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: Swat Valley/Oddiyana

Post by Crazywisdom » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:18 am

passel wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:30 am
All cool posts- I’m learning a lot here, but I’m curious- I posted this in the Dharma in Everyday Life forum, but nobody’s even mentioned Malala Yousafzai, who was the occasion for the OP. We’re talking about a land of sacred origins, yes, but aren’t we equally talking about the home of a real living human being, a teenage activist for women’s education in a conservative Islamic country, who was shot in the head by a boy a little younger than her working at the behest of “the Taliban”, but who has since taken the world stage, won a Nobel Peace Prize, started studying at Oxford, and in general- at 21- been a major figure at a worldwide human (women’s) rights flashpoint. Nobody interested? I mean, I like armchair archaeology as much as the next guy- and I don’t mean to be flippant, but isn’t that kind of cool too?

(I mean- don’t stop w the histories etc, and maybe I’m not seeding the pot for a full discussion of a progressive pop icon, just the discussion seemed a little lopsided)
It’s a power place. This is the evidence. Generally people from
This area are very smart and very strong. With high spiritual and ethical standards.
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

User avatar
Aryjna
Posts: 973
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:45 pm

Re: Swat Valley/Oddiyana

Post by Aryjna » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:38 am

I had wondered before if Tucci ever got teachings from ChNNR or something like that, but it is clear in the introduction of the book that he thinks the Vajrayana is total crap :D

passel
Posts: 434
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:30 am

Re: Swat Valley/Oddiyana

Post by passel » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:32 pm

“The compassion of the buddhas is not limited to the compassion of the buddhas.”
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 17657
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Swat Valley/Oddiyana

Post by Grigoris » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:53 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:17 am
...but another more important issue is that none of the locations and directions described in the original texts cited by Malcolm...
Well, actually here we have to be somewhat careful. Sometimes the evidence found in canonical texts was written to justify/fit an already existing idea/notion, or for didactic purposes rather than historical record.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 17657
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Swat Valley/Oddiyana

Post by Grigoris » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:56 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:18 am
passel wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:30 am
All cool posts- I’m learning a lot here, but I’m curious- I posted this in the Dharma in Everyday Life forum, but nobody’s even mentioned Malala Yousafzai, who was the occasion for the OP. We’re talking about a land of sacred origins, yes, but aren’t we equally talking about the home of a real living human being, a teenage activist for women’s education in a conservative Islamic country, who was shot in the head by a boy a little younger than her working at the behest of “the Taliban”, but who has since taken the world stage, won a Nobel Peace Prize, started studying at Oxford, and in general- at 21- been a major figure at a worldwide human (women’s) rights flashpoint. Nobody interested? I mean, I like armchair archaeology as much as the next guy- and I don’t mean to be flippant, but isn’t that kind of cool too?

(I mean- don’t stop w the histories etc, and maybe I’m not seeding the pot for a full discussion of a progressive pop icon, just the discussion seemed a little lopsided)
It’s a power place. This is the evidence. Generally people from
This area are very smart and very strong. With high spiritual and ethical standards.
Except when they are shooting young girls, that are trying to get educated, in the head.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

passel
Posts: 434
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:30 am

Re: Swat Valley/Oddiyana

Post by passel » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:39 pm

I wonder if that, or something like it, was going on during Guru Rinpoche’s time. He taught women dharma, and shared teaching with at least one of them. But I wonder if he ever taught women to- say- read.
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

Crazywisdom
Posts: 1552
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: Swat Valley/Oddiyana

Post by Crazywisdom » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:08 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:56 pm
Crazywisdom wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:18 am
passel wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:30 am
All cool posts- I’m learning a lot here, but I’m curious- I posted this in the Dharma in Everyday Life forum, but nobody’s even mentioned Malala Yousafzai, who was the occasion for the OP. We’re talking about a land of sacred origins, yes, but aren’t we equally talking about the home of a real living human being, a teenage activist for women’s education in a conservative Islamic country, who was shot in the head by a boy a little younger than her working at the behest of “the Taliban”, but who has since taken the world stage, won a Nobel Peace Prize, started studying at Oxford, and in general- at 21- been a major figure at a worldwide human (women’s) rights flashpoint. Nobody interested? I mean, I like armchair archaeology as much as the next guy- and I don’t mean to be flippant, but isn’t that kind of cool too?

(I mean- don’t stop w the histories etc, and maybe I’m not seeding the pot for a full discussion of a progressive pop icon, just the discussion seemed a little lopsided)
It’s a power place. This is the evidence. Generally people from
This area are very smart and very strong. With high spiritual and ethical standards.
Except when they are shooting young girls, that are trying to get educated, in the head.
Such places Bring out powerful energy good and bad.
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

passel
Posts: 434
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:30 am

Re: Swat Valley/Oddiyana

Post by passel » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:26 pm

How is that different from a place that is not a power place?
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

Crazywisdom
Posts: 1552
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: Swat Valley/Oddiyana

Post by Crazywisdom » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:33 pm

Go there and see
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

passel
Posts: 434
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:30 am

Re: Swat Valley/Oddiyana

Post by passel » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:37 pm

Cheap
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

krodha
Posts: 2412
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:30 pm

Re: Swat Valley/Oddiyana

Post by krodha » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:52 am

passel wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:26 pm
How is that different from a place that is not a power place?
The region in general is clearly a hotbed of conflict, tumultuous uprising and activity of the like.

passel
Posts: 434
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:30 am

Re: Swat Valley/Oddiyana

Post by passel » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:00 am

So is it not a bayul then?
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

Crazywisdom
Posts: 1552
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: Swat Valley/Oddiyana

Post by Crazywisdom » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:54 am

You’re right. It’s not. Forget all about it. Look YouTube.
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

passel
Posts: 434
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:30 am

Re: Swat Valley/Oddiyana

Post by passel » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:29 pm

That was a question not an assertion. Not sure why you’re sniping, seems like better uses of one’s precious human life abound.
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

Crazywisdom
Posts: 1552
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: Swat Valley/Oddiyana

Post by Crazywisdom » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:38 pm

Ok. Here’s the deal. Maybe. It is, like Jalandhara, a very spiritual historically important area. The whole hidden pure land is a path thing. Follow your heart. Maybe the dakini is calling you. Maybe you go there to get beheaded. Maybe both. Maybe nothing happens and you eat goat curry.
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

passel
Posts: 434
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:30 am

Re: Swat Valley/Oddiyana

Post by passel » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:12 pm

Now you’re talking some sense. I like the idea, but unless the dakini shows up in the form of an appropriately timed plane ticket, it won’t happen any time soon. And anyway I’m not sure that’s the message exactly.
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

Crazywisdom
Posts: 1552
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: Swat Valley/Oddiyana

Post by Crazywisdom » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:26 pm

passel wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:12 pm
Now you’re talking some sense. I like the idea, but unless the dakini shows up in the form of an appropriately timed plane ticket, it won’t happen any time soon. And anyway I’m not sure that’s the message exactly.
Well I’m reading that the Pakistan military has seized control from taliban and has escorted some
Korean monks to another ancient temple site. So if one made the right moves one could conceivably get there and maybe even have a good time. If one can find the basic tribes of
Folks where Buddha was historically loved one would
Prob find open minded Girls. And who
Knows maybe an ancient dakini somewhere picking walnuts. I’ve had some decent luck with the Afghani girls. The world is your oyster. Vajrayana is like a passport to everywhere. Got my skull passed customs in Indonesia just relating to Buddha.
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

User avatar
Aryjna
Posts: 973
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:45 pm

Re: Swat Valley/Oddiyana

Post by Aryjna » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:43 pm


Crazywisdom
Posts: 1552
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: Swat Valley/Oddiyana

Post by Crazywisdom » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:55 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:43 pm
http://www.visitswat.org/
“Swat was described as “Udyanaa” (the garden) in ancient Hindu epics. Alexander the Great crossed Swat River with part of his”
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

Post Reply

Return to “Dharma in Everyday Life”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 37 guests