Happiness Is Not The Goal.

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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Simon E.
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Happiness Is Not The Goal.

Post by Simon E. » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:08 pm

In his groundbreaking work ‘What Makes You Not A Buddhist’ Dzongsar Rinpoche lists among those beliefs that differ from Buddhadharma the idea that Nirvana can be reduced to concepts. This includes the idea that Nirvana is or can be a fix for Samsara. As he says “happiness is not the goal “.
Nirvana, he says is beyond all concepts and all aspirations which can be formed by mundane consciousness.
As CTR said “we imagine ourselves enlightened in some future time, happy and carefree and surrounded by other happy people in a sunny world. There is just one thing wrong with this scenario. When Enlightenment happens YOU won’t be there! All that you identify as you and yours will be seen clearly as arising in great emptiness and returning to the Void”.

Buddhadharma is not a fix for Samsara. There is no fix for Samsara. Samsara does it’s job impeccably. Buddhadharma is the fix for “you”.
Last edited by Simon E. on Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Why don’t you close down your PC for a while and find out who needs your help?”

HH Tai Situ.

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Queequeg
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Re: Happiness Is Not The Goal.

Post by Queequeg » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:18 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:08 pm
In his groundbreaking work ‘What Makes You Not A Buddhist’ Dzongskar Rinpoche lists among those beliefs that differ from Buddhadharma the idea that Nirvana can be reduced to concepts. This includes the idea that Nirvana is or can be a fix for Samsara. As he says “happiness is not the goal “.
Nirvana, he says is beyond all concepts and all aspirations which can be formed by mundane consciousness.
As CTR said “we imagine ourselves enlightened in some future time, happy and carefree and surrounded by other happy people in a sunny world. There is just one thing wrong with this scenario. When Enlightenment happens YOU won’t be there! All that you identify as you and yours will be seen clearly as arising in great emptiness and returning to the Void”.

Buddhadharma is not a fix for Samsara. There is no fix for Samsara. Samsara does it’s job impeccably. Buddhadharma is the fix for “you”.
What is this nonsense? What samsara?

Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

tkp67
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Re: Happiness Is Not The Goal.

Post by tkp67 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:19 pm

Because if you make the goal the fruits of liberation you can't be liberated, however how can one who is liberated fail to feel joy from the relief of suffering that arises from mind?

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Queequeg
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Re: Happiness Is Not The Goal.

Post by Queequeg » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:23 pm

Joy drops off after the 3rd dhyana. Advanced bodhisattvas and buddha are marked by equanimity.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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LastLegend
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Location: Washington DC

Re: Happiness Is Not The Goal.

Post by LastLegend » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:43 pm

Happiness is empty motion therefore be happy in clarity!
Within that state of clarity, there is a knowing that remains unchanged stationary can be seen when looking at an object.

tkp67
Posts: 594
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 5:42 am

Re: Happiness Is Not The Goal.

Post by tkp67 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:51 pm

LastLegend wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:43 pm
Happiness is empty motion therefore be happy in clarity!
Apparently that stage is 3rd dhyana

( chatur-dhyāna;  shi-zenjō): Also, four stages of dhyāna or four dhyānas. Four levels of meditation that enable those in the world of desire to throw off illusions and be reborn among the four meditation heavens in the world of form. The first meditation leads one to the first heaven, and so on. In the first meditation, one is freed from the desires of the senses and the commitment of evil deeds and thus experiences pleasure. In the second meditation, one experiences concentration of mind and inner serenity, which also produces pleasure. In the third meditation, one feels true joy and equanimity. In the fourth meditation, one gains the state that transcends both suffering and joy.

Simon E.
Posts: 6546
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Happiness Is Not The Goal.

Post by Simon E. » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:59 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:18 pm
Simon E. wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:08 pm
In his groundbreaking work ‘What Makes You Not A Buddhist’ Dzongskar Rinpoche lists among those beliefs that differ from Buddhadharma the idea that Nirvana can be reduced to concepts. This includes the idea that Nirvana is or can be a fix for Samsara. As he says “happiness is not the goal “.
Nirvana, he says is beyond all concepts and all aspirations which can be formed by mundane consciousness.
As CTR said “we imagine ourselves enlightened in some future time, happy and carefree and surrounded by other happy people in a sunny world. There is just one thing wrong with this scenario. When Enlightenment happens YOU won’t be there! All that you identify as you and yours will be seen clearly as arising in great emptiness and returning to the Void”.

Buddhadharma is not a fix for Samsara. There is no fix for Samsara. Samsara does it’s job impeccably. Buddhadharma is the fix for “you”.
What is this nonsense? What samsara




“The water shines
A pebble skips a dozen times
Then disappears
Not a trace left behind”. :smile:
“Why don’t you close down your PC for a while and find out who needs your help?”

HH Tai Situ.

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LastLegend
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Location: Washington DC

Re: Happiness Is Not The Goal.

Post by LastLegend » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:02 pm

No contest.

If happiness is a result of self binding, then that’s suffering.
Within that state of clarity, there is a knowing that remains unchanged stationary can be seen when looking at an object.

tkp67
Posts: 594
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 5:42 am

Re: Happiness Is Not The Goal.

Post by tkp67 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:19 pm

It would seem suffering what there is to suffer and enjoy what there is to enjoy in context of Nichiren practice is the sublimation of making them equal which coupled with constant chanting allows for moment by moment realization of this sublimation.

It say this because it was a posted the gosho about happiness in this world that seemed to give rise to this one. My guess without blame for there is none I understand the disconnect.

If one does not see how the teachings all work in accord to shakyamuni's great wisdom and tries to compare the without true pure equanimity for all in their mind there arises doubt, discord and a general lack of understanding. The only bridge that can allow for that great wisdom to manifest is great faith it exists. That faith simply does not exist in the minds of most and the catalyst to developing it are life conditions so severe that it is required to survive. People who do not know this as a cause don't have the karma to justify, a reflection of much better life conditions.

Personally I never once doubt the wisdom in any of buddha's paths, I celebrate them and learn from those on them. This is how I have quickened the understanding of the lotus which is all the teachings because it reveals all the nature of mind and reveals the emptiness from which everything arises.

I have also been quickly understanding that for all the minds that don't have the same cause that to try to understand this practice from the point of view it would leave them thinking the person is schizophrenic.

One of the things I have gleaned over the past week is how powerful the subliminal is in regards to the mind. The lotus sutra like all teachings are trying to seed the subliminal for the purpose of manifestation of realization. I like to think of the teachings as a compass and while other practices set the course as the destination of one path this sutra does them all.

This is not to sell this as a path but rather it simply illustrates if we put as a part of that seed lack of bias regarding path of others we might all realize the lotus sutra on our own terms and accords without strife born through different expressions and applications of teachings.

At some point all of them are extraneous of the state they are meant to evoke including the lotus itself but the state reveals we are all connected by conscious so if we deny the paths in others we are creating causes and conditions to keep them from being realized as our beings act as mirrors for us all.
Last edited by tkp67 on Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tkp67
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Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 5:42 am

Re: Happiness Is Not The Goal.

Post by tkp67 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:20 pm

I guess I spent too much time listening to bluejeans and moonbeams.

seriously I am deeply indebted and grateful for the allowance of this difference in perspective and all those who suffer me because it has helped me understand many things in always I could not without.

I have come to understand the world through experiences I would never have chosen in any lifetime, nor would I ever make another experience for the same insight.

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