DW Mind Would You Jog My Memory Please?

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Simon E.
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DW Mind Would You Jog My Memory Please?

Post by Simon E. » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:00 pm

In several discussions over the last few weeks I wanted to cite the Zen metaphor of putting an extra head on top of your head, but I wasn’t sure whether I was remembering it correctly and whether it was actually useful to the point I was trying to make. Can the collective DW mind help me out?
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.

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LastLegend
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Re: DW Mind Would You Jog My Memory Please?

Post by LastLegend » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:08 pm

If grasped by action aggregate, arises intention, followed by perceptions (another aggregate), that’s obstructing the pure vision/view/seeing-there should be only one! But our habits!
Make personal vows.

End of the day: I don’t know.

Simon E.
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Re: DW Mind Would You Jog My Memory Please?

Post by Simon E. » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:44 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:00 pm
In several discussions over the last few weeks I wanted to cite the Zen metaphor of putting an extra head on top of your head, but I wasn’t sure whether I was remembering it correctly and whether it was actually useful to the point I was trying to make. Can the collective DW mind help me out?
Bump.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.

tkp67
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Re: DW Mind Would You Jog My Memory Please?

Post by tkp67 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:14 pm

This it?
“I say to you there is no buddha, no dharma, nothing to practice, nothing to enlighten to. Just what are you seeking in the highways and byways? Blind men! You’re putting a head on top of the one you already have. What do you yourselves lack? Followers of the Way, your own present activities do not differ from those of the patriarch-buddhas. You just don’t believe this and keep on seeking outside. Make no mistake! Outside there is no dharma; inside, there is nothing to be obtained. Better than grasp at the words from my mouth, take it easy and do nothing. Don’t continue [thoughts] that have already arisen and don’t let those that haven’t yet arisen be aroused. Just this will be worth far more to you than a ten years’ pilgrimage.”
Page 22. Section 238

http://info.stiltij.nl/publiek/meditati ... sasaki.pdf

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Matt J
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Re: DW Mind Would You Jog My Memory Please?

Post by Matt J » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:20 pm

It it used in various ways, but I always associate it with Linji. An example from the Record of Lin-chi, trans. Burton Watson:
I tell you, there's no Buddha, no Dharma, no practice, no enlightenment. Yet you go off like this on side roads, trying to find something. Blind fools! Will you put another head on top of the one you have? What is it you lack?
"The essence of meditation practice is to let go of all your expectations about meditation. All the qualities of your natural mind -- peace, openness, relaxation, and clarity -- are present in your mind just as it is. You don't have to do anything different. You don't have to shift or change your awareness. All you have to do while observing your mind is to recognize the qualities it already has."
--- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

Simon E.
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Re: DW Mind Would You Jog My Memory Please?

Post by Simon E. » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:24 pm

Thank you Matt. Would you or a Zen person unpack it a little?
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.

tkp67
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Re: DW Mind Would You Jog My Memory Please?

Post by tkp67 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:37 pm

Buddha is not a person but a nature of the mind. To find it one must view this nature from the perspective of one's own mind not that of another person.

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Wayfarer
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Re: DW Mind Would You Jog My Memory Please?

Post by Wayfarer » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:47 pm

I don’t regard myself as a Zen adept, but I always understood it to mean ‘realising the true nature’. Realising the true nature is truly understanding what is already and always so, rather than seeking something else, seeking outside, trying to attain something or being caught up in externals. To me, it ties in with the Buddha nature teaching, which is one of remembering the Buddha nature - that we have already been gifted with enlightenment, but we don’t appreciate it and so we continue to want something else. (That is the gist of the parable of leaving home with a jewel sewn into your robe, looking for wealth somewhere else.)
'Only practice with no gaining idea' ~ Suzuki Roshi

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Dan74
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Re: DW Mind Would You Jog My Memory Please?

Post by Dan74 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:27 pm

Wayfarer pretty much said it. Perhaps one can add that Linchi was addressing monks who were practicing very hard but had too little faith in the power that was within them, casting outwards, as it were. With sufficient cultivation, turning inwards and realising that it is no different to outwards and all one has been seeking has been here all along, right under one's nose.

Simon E.
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Re: DW Mind Would You Jog My Memory Please?

Post by Simon E. » Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:36 am

Thank you Matt, Wayfarer and Dan...much appreciated. :namaste:
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.

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KeithA
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Re: DW Mind Would You Jog My Memory Please?

Post by KeithA » Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:01 pm

I read it as putting a false self on top of one's true self. Similar to Hsueh Tou's comment in case 4 of the Blue Cliff Record "piling frost on snow".

It's ironic that even many hundreds of years ago, human beings were saying "people these days are nothing like the practitioners of old". Round and round... :)

_/|\_
You make, you get.

New Haven Zen Center

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LastLegend
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Re: DW Mind Would You Jog My Memory Please?

Post by LastLegend » Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:13 pm

KeithA wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:01 pm
I read it as putting a false self on top of one's true self. Similar to Hsueh Tou's comment in case 4 of the Blue Cliff Record "piling frost on snow".

It's ironic that even many hundreds of years ago, human beings were saying "people these days are nothing like the practitioners of old". Round and round... :)

_/|\_
Hi KeithA,

If you don’t mind, can I pick your brain a little here?

What would be a true self?
Make personal vows.

End of the day: I don’t know.

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KeithA
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Re: DW Mind Would You Jog My Memory Please?

Post by KeithA » Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:30 pm

LastLegend wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:13 pm
KeithA wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:01 pm
I read it as putting a false self on top of one's true self. Similar to Hsueh Tou's comment in case 4 of the Blue Cliff Record "piling frost on snow".

It's ironic that even many hundreds of years ago, human beings were saying "people these days are nothing like the practitioners of old". Round and round... :)

_/|\_
Hi KeithA,

If you don’t mind, can I pick your brain a little here?

What would be a true self?
Please ask your teacher. :broke:
You make, you get.

New Haven Zen Center

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LastLegend
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Re: DW Mind Would You Jog My Memory Please?

Post by LastLegend » Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:34 pm

Okay!
Make personal vows.

End of the day: I don’t know.

Simon E.
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Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: DW Mind Would You Jog My Memory Please?

Post by Simon E. » Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:47 pm

KeithA wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:01 pm
I read it as putting a false self on top of one's true self. Similar to Hsueh Tou's comment in case 4 of the Blue Cliff Record "piling frost on snow".

It's ironic that even many hundreds of years ago, human beings were saying "people these days are nothing like the practitioners of old". Round and round... :)

_/|\_
Thank you Keith. It was indeed what I was groping towards..( see op).
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.

humble.student
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Re: DW Mind Would You Jog My Memory Please?

Post by humble.student » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:17 am

KeithA wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:01 pm
It's ironic that even many hundreds of years ago, human beings were saying "people these days are nothing like the practitioners of old". Round and round... :)
I heard a teacher once gently put someone down for repeating this old chestnut, saying that practice was just as difficult "back in the days" and that the only reason we tend to have a high opinion of the masters of the past is that we only know of the accomplished ones - we never hear about everyone else.

Simon E.
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Re: DW Mind Would You Jog My Memory Please?

Post by Simon E. » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:26 am

And let’s face it..we only hear about even the accomplished ones once they have accomplished. Not on their bad days. Which they undoubtably had.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.

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