as the Lotus sutra states the 4 dharma seals were provisional,also they were never taught to be a way to determine what is a true sutra(word of the buddha) this was made up by its followers.gregkavarnos wrote:Nowhere and everywhere. They are the identifying characteristics of Buddhadharma. I apply them to all teachings in order to ascertain if they are Buddharma. That and the fact that they are free of the four extremes.Son of Buddha wrote:where in the sutras does it say to identify them as sutras by the 4 dharma seals????Yes, well, you have totally missed my point. You present a view. I analyse it based on the criteria of... If it satisfies the criteria then I am cool with it. If not, then...note you know everything you listed is what abides in samsarasan dont you????
none of those things actually has anything to do with the Buddha whatsoever example the Buddha is not impermanant(pali canon even states he teaches the path to immortality)impermanace itself is rooted in samsarasan.
non self is the tainted ego self again this is samsarasan the Buddha doesnt have a tainted ego self.
suffering again has to do with samsarasan it is not of the Buddha(Buddha doesnt suffer)The people that wrote the Mahaparinirvana Sutra contradicted elements of the Four Dharma Seals. As I said before: I believe they can be salvaged through the application of Madhyamaka reasoning (revising, as Malcolm called it).the Buddha goes beyond the 4 dharma seals in the mahaparinirvana sutra(tathagatagarbha sutras)
how did the Nirvana sutra contradict the elements of the 4 dharma seals???
nonself is the end to the tainted self this is what the Nirvana sutra teaches,it goes beyond it in that the Buddha has a fixed true self(in Thervadan it is taught the Buddha is the teacher of the deathless/imortality,which is why the 4th truth is PERMANENT)
lets look at impermance sir,the tainted self and all of samsarasan is IMPERMANENT which is what the Nirvana sutra teaches,it goes beyond it by stateing the the Buddha is PERMANENT,impermanance was ALWAYS in relation to samsarasan and tainted self NOT the Buddha,how can we prove this??the 4th noble truth is PROOF of this,when it states the Buddha has PERMANETLY given up the 3 poisons(greed/anger/ignorance) this ruins the idea of adding the Buddha to impermanace and shows that impermance was meant for what is in samsarasan.
how is the dharma seal of suffering not in the nirvana sutra???the sutra (all including the pali canon states the Buddha does not suffer) so again sir 4th noble truth the Buddha PERMANTLY does not suffer.
like I said the 3/4 dharma seals are contained in the nirvana sutra,the Nirvana sutra just discribes them and goes beyond them.(note nothing the Nirvana sutra says is really new at all simply reading the definition of the 4 noble truths in the pali canon shows that impermanance belongs to those in samsarasan and the Buddha is beyond impermanace when he PERMANTLY ends death/rebirth/and the 3 poisons(I can provide the suttas from the Majjhima nikaya if you like?