Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma?

[seeker242]

Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma? thanks.

I don't see how indulging in sense pleasures can be considered good karma. But, it's certainly not as bad as unwholesome conduct.

If you will know "skillful means" you will know that there is liberation in indulging in sense of pleasure.

Any definition of "skillful means" I have ever head does not include indulging in the very thing that binds one to begin with. Seems to me that would not be very different from an alcoholic drinking beer in order to be liberated from alcoholism. That does not make sense to me!

[Dan74]

Is 'Wholesome Conduct' in Sex a good Karma? thanks.

I don't see how indulging in sense pleasures can be considered good karma. But, it's certainly not as bad as unwholesome conduct.

I agree in principle (with the except of tantric methods where they do "fight fire with fire"), but even outside tantra, in practice we all work with what we have. So if at the moment we are in a sexual relationship, it is best to do it right - bring awareness and clarity to the act, listen to your partner, drop the ego as much as possible and yes, engage with it in a non-dual way, like a dance. Sense-pleasure and some intoxication with it are going to be there, IMO, but it can also be a learning experience in a very positive way.

Perhaps in time, with insight it will be relinquished altogether, but for now, best to practice wholesome conduct, as per the OP.

_/|\_
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[dharmagoat]

Any definition of "skillful means" I have ever head does not include indulging in the very thing that binds one to begin with. Seems to me that would not be very different from an alcoholic drinking beer in order to be liberated from alcoholism. That does not make sense to me!

I would think moderation is the best way to keep desires in check. Middle way 'n all.

[Dan74]

Any definition of "skillful means" I have ever head does not include indulging in the very thing that binds one to begin with. Seems to me that would not be very different from an alcoholic drinking beer in order to be liberated from alcoholism. That does not make sense to me!

I would think moderation is the best way to keep desires in check. Middle way 'n all.

The question is where is that middle? Some (the Buddha?)may argue that the middle is renunciation - between indulgence in pleasure and harsh asceticism.

[dharmagoat]

The question is where is that middle? Some (the Buddha?)may argue that the middle is renunciation - between indulgence in pleasure and harsh asceticism.

A good point. I would guess that the middle point is different for different types of people.

[Saoshun]

Sex is good and healthy but it will not enlighten people, stupid people make sex wrong because they don't know how to handle it and they just compulsive react over-powered by the hormones. Sex is like anything else, breathing, walking, working out so proper understanding it's good for it to do it right way. Sexual teachings in the sense of spiritual are need great level of cultivation, there are samadhi practices in hindu yoga with are related to sex but them also need person to be erected yet off the lust - how many people can do that? Very little. I suggest to stick with just meditation and non leakage. Mostly people on that way cheating themselves and use spirituality as sense to get into pants of women or men as excuse.

The proper way to enjoy bliss is to learn how to mix with partner on non physical level which can happen with tummo practices when you have orgasmic rushes and rapture without even losing clothes - this is proper sexual relation on the human level, following animal ways are regressive and non satisfactions. People should evolve into sages, rishis, yogis and buddhas, bodisattvas so the ways of relations, eating, sleeping, whatever should also evolve to that perspective and it will be wholesome.