LOL i love that guyVirgo wrote:
Kevin
Assisted Suicide/ euthanasia
Re: Assisted Suicide/ euthanasia
Re: Assisted Suicide/ euthanasia
death penalty is bad but what u do with all the crazy killers and terrorist ppl? is it best to try to heal them instead?Grigoris wrote:So, do you oppose the Death Penalty, or not?Nicholas Weeks wrote:Mother of four battles greed of insurance companies, expedient government and callous people.
PS Don't bother answering, I found this thread where you basically act as an apologist for capital punishemnt, so the extent of your hypocrisy is quite clear.
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Re: Assisted Suicide/ euthanasia
Grigoris is so rarely impersonal re Nicholas - too bad.
Pointing out the fact of capital punishment being practiced in Tibet does not mean I support capital punishment - I do not.
Pointing out the fact of capital punishment being practiced in Tibet does not mean I support capital punishment - I do not.
May all seek, find & follow the Path of Buddhas.
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Re: Assisted Suicide/ euthanasia
For a Buddhist look at the subject read Peter Harvey's Introduction of Buddhist Ethics, chapter seven.
An excerpt:
An excerpt:
As Buddhism sees intention as crucial to the assessment of the morality of an act, however, it would not differentiate between active and passive means [or euthanasia] if these were intended to cause or hasten death. The Buddha’s strong condemnation of a monk or nun praising or aiding a suicide (see p.289) is here relevant. To kill a person deliberately, even if he or she requests this, is dealt with in the same way as murder.
May all seek, find & follow the Path of Buddhas.
Re: Assisted Suicide/ euthanasia
Yoy are speaking about yourself in the third person???Nicholas Weeks wrote:Grigoris is so rarely impersonal re Nicholas - too bad.
Well that is nice to hear. Thank you for clarifying this point.Pointing out the fact of capital punishment being practiced in Tibet does not mean I support capital punishment - I do not.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Assisted Suicide/ euthanasia
Yes. Even better would be to have a society that does not support the existence and cultivation of terrorism and "crazy" killers.Strive wrote:death penalty is bad but what u do with all the crazy killers and terrorist ppl? is it best to try to heal them instead?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Assisted Suicide/ euthanasia
What is the source of the quote? Is it from the Pali Canon, or is it from a Mahayana Sutra? Also note that the admonition is directed towards a monastic.Nicholas Weeks wrote:For a Buddhist look at the subject read Peter Harvey's Introduction of Buddhist Ethics, chapter seven.
An excerpt:
As Buddhism sees intention as crucial to the assessment of the morality of an act, however, it would not differentiate between active and passive means [or euthanasia] if these were intended to cause or hasten death. The Buddha’s strong condemnation of a monk or nun praising or aiding a suicide (see p.289) is here relevant. To kill a person deliberately, even if he or she requests this, is dealt with in the same way as murder.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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- Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:21 am
- Location: California
Re: Assisted Suicide/ euthanasia
Buy the book or use this version to research:Grigoris wrote:What is the source of the quote? Is it from the Pali Canon, or is it from a Mahayana Sutra? Also note that the admonition is directed towards a monastic.
http://gen.lib.rus.ec/search.php?req=in ... lumn=title
May all seek, find & follow the Path of Buddhas.
Re: Assisted Suicide/ euthanasia
So you are just cherry picking then? Don't want to give the context or the primary source. That is some sloppy and lazy shit on your behalf. Not knowing the sources of the quotes you are using is pretty lame.Nicholas Weeks wrote:Buy the book or use this version to research:Grigoris wrote:What is the source of the quote? Is it from the Pali Canon, or is it from a Mahayana Sutra? Also note that the admonition is directed towards a monastic.
http://gen.lib.rus.ec/search.php?req=in ... lumn=title
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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- Posts: 4209
- Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:21 am
- Location: California
Re: Assisted Suicide/ euthanasia
Talk about slothful! But it is easier & quicker for you to zip out a critical retort.Grigoris wrote:So you are just cherry picking then? Don't want to give the context or the primary source. That is some sloppy and lazy shit on your behalf. Not knowing the sources of the quotes you are using is pretty lame.
Did not write I did not know the source; just do your own research (and assume less).
Here an excellent site chock full of facts and information (for Mr. G to ignore).
http://www.euthanasia.com
May all seek, find & follow the Path of Buddhas.
Re: Assisted Suicide/ euthanasia
I'm not interested in reading sites concerning euthanasia, for me it is quite simple, as simple as in the case of termination of pregnancy: I believe that the individual involved should have the right to choose. Not you. Not the state. Not anybody else. Just the individual involved. They will accrue the karmic debt anyway, so...Nicholas Weeks wrote:Talk about slothful! But it is easier & quicker for you to zip out a critical retort.Grigoris wrote:So you are just cherry picking then? Don't want to give the context or the primary source. That is some sloppy and lazy shit on your behalf. Not knowing the sources of the quotes you are using is pretty lame.
Did not write I did not know the source; just do your own research (and assume less).
Here an excellent site chock full of facts and information (for Mr. G to ignore).
http://www.euthanasia.com
It is easy for you to play the moral overlord, given you are not in the situation yourself, but I bet if you were put in the situation you would want to have the right to choose. You would jump up and down and have hissy fits about it, I am sure.
Anyway, I am not interested in the propaganda of one side or the other regarding the issue, I am interested in whether the quote YOU POSTED is from a Theravada or a Mahayana source. I bet it is Theravada.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Assisted Suicide/ euthanasia
As far as I can tell, the quote that Nicholas posted comes from Peter Harvey himself.Grigoris wrote:Anyway, I am not interested in the propaganda of one side or the other regarding the issue, I am interested in whether the quote YOU POSTED is from a Theravada or a Mahayana source. I bet it is Theravada.
I have no idea if he considers himself a Theravada or Mahayana practitioner. However, looking at p.289, "The Buddha’s strong condemnation of a monk or nun praising or aiding a suicide," comes from the Vinaya, as quoted in the book,Peter Harvey, [url=https://books.google.com/books?id=9CTSz3EVRpoC&pg=PA294&lpg=PA294&dq=%22As+Buddhism+sees+intention+as+crucial+to+the+assessment+of+the+morality+of+an+act%22&source=bl&ots=otS7NMzEGM&sig=BRkKdXZGvTLGbP6QXY3ehZ4NP9E&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjn9LX5gdXVAhVDw1QKHfa9CPIQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=%22As%20Buddhism%20sees%20intention%20as%20crucial%20to%20the%20assessment%20of%20the%20morality%20of%20an%20act%22&f=false][i]An Introduction to Buddhist Ethics: Foundations, Values and Issues[/i], p. 294[/url] wrote:As Buddhism sees intention as crucial to the assessment of the morality of an act, however, it would not differentiate between active and passive means [or euthanasia] if these were intended to cause or hasten death. The Buddha’s strong condemnation of a monk or nun praising or aiding a suicide (see p.289) is here relevant. To kill a person deliberately, even if he or she requests this, is dealt with in the same way as murder.
[i]An Introduction to Buddhist Ethics: Foundations, Values and Issues[/i], p. 289 wrote:Whatever monk should intentionally deprive a human being of life, or should look about so as to be his knife-bringer, or should praise the beauty of death, or should incite (anyone) to death, saying, 'Hello there, my man, of what use to you is this evil, difficult life? Death is better for you than life', or who should deliberately and purposefully in various ways praise the beauty of death or should incite (anyone) to death: he is also one who is defeated, he is not in communion. (Vin. 111.73)
Re: Assisted Suicide/ euthanasia
oh i c but what if there ichantikasGrigoris wrote:Yes. Even better would be to have a society that does not support the existence and cultivation of terrorism and "crazy" killers.Strive wrote:death penalty is bad but what u do with all the crazy killers and terrorist ppl? is it best to try to heal them instead?
Re: Assisted Suicide/ euthanasia
I am in no position to judge these things. I cannot know somebody's motivation and past karma, I am not a Buddha. Either way, actions like these are always based in ignorance, so if the opportunity to jail and/or reform a person exists, then I prefer this option to becoming a murderer too.Strive wrote:oh i c but what if there ichantikasGrigoris wrote:Yes. Even better would be to have a society that does not support the existence and cultivation of terrorism and "crazy" killers.Strive wrote:death penalty is bad but what u do with all the crazy killers and terrorist ppl? is it best to try to heal them instead?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Assisted Suicide/ euthanasia
Prince was Fentanyl. Michael Jackson was Propofol, which burns terribly when injected. A very odd choice.TharpaChodron wrote:I wouldn't know, but it was Michael Jackson's drug of choice. which is very strange imo.Malcolm wrote:Fentanyl is not a good way to die.TharpaChodron wrote:
That's the problem I was concerned about. It would be great to be given the option of taking fentanyl, but I have no idea how that works. consciousness at the time of death is important, yet there's many times when I'm sure people die unconscious due to various reasons.
As I have a hard time with all or nothing thinking, the Arhat story is nice. Okay, maybe not "nice," but you get what I'm saying.
Re: Assisted Suicide/ euthanasia
Haloperidol stings like a MF too, but it gets you high as a kite. The burning sensation is a small price to pay for the rush, thus...Nemo wrote:Prince was Fentanyl. Michael Jackson was Propofol, which burns terribly when injected. A very odd choice.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Assisted Suicide/ euthanasia
A drug rep gave me one of these. It was my mug of choice for years, I used it until the handle literally fell off.Grigoris wrote:Haloperidol stings like a MF too, but it gets you high as a kite.
Re: Assisted Suicide/ euthanasia
My Bad (pun intended). These modern synthetic opiates are scary stuff. Or are they synthetic? No need to bargain with death for a little thrill. My cousin died last year in Cleveland doing some of this new heroin stuff going around. China white or whatever it's called.Nemo wrote:Prince was Fentanyl. Michael Jackson was Propofol, which burns terribly when injected. A very odd choice.TharpaChodron wrote:I wouldn't know, but it was Michael Jackson's drug of choice. which is very strange imo.Malcolm wrote:
Fentanyl is not a good way to die.
Re: Assisted Suicide/ euthanasia
Please stick to the topic. This topic is in the Dharma in Everyday Life subforum and the OP asked:
"From a Buddhist view should he be given the right to die or left to suffer in his current condition....?"
Any further off-topic posts (ie not related to a Buddhist view of Euthanasia) will be deleted.
Thank you
"From a Buddhist view should he be given the right to die or left to suffer in his current condition....?"
Any further off-topic posts (ie not related to a Buddhist view of Euthanasia) will be deleted.
Thank you
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Assisted Suicide/ euthanasia
It's good to hear from someone that would rather get their ethical advice from from Buddhist suttas than get caught up in the flavor of the month.Nicholas Weeks wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:58 pmCorrect - as Buddha in the Sutta-Nipata put it:TharpaChodron wrote: I've wondered how it's viewed from a Buddhist standpoint. I'm pretty sure it's a no-no...
Laying aside violence toward all living creatures, both the firm & unfirm in the world, one should not kill a living being, nor have it killed, nor condone killing by others.