The Six Lamps

Discussion of the fifth religious tradition of Tibet.
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 7777
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: The Six Lamps

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:08 am

Lindama wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:35 am
heartdrops fell off the shelf 25+ years ago, lucky life. have you ever talked to your root guru in person? just what does this all mean? forgive, I obviously don't understand. I can't comprehend how we can judge what we are ready for.
Nope, ironically I have in person access to a number of awesome teachers in a few lineages pretty regularly, but not my root Guru. Not possibly geographically and/or economically at this point. I don't think we can always comprehend what we are ready for, that's why it's important to take the advice of the people you decide are authoritative, I suppose.
Malcolm wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:15 am
The answer is really simple. Go get the transmission from a teacher you trust, Bon or Buddhist. Then, read whatever you like.

It still leaves me with a bit of confusion on the larger issue, since Bönpo teachers simply seem to talk about Thogal more openly - including when people have no transmission, but it seems that if I simply avoid reading about stuff that ChNN recommends I not read for now, it mostly solves the problem.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

User avatar
Lindama
Posts: 660
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:26 pm
Location: Forestville, CA usa

Re: The Six Lamps

Post by Lindama » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:11 am

that's entirely up to you Johnny, if you don't judge yourself.
Not last night,
not this morning,
melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 27191
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: The Six Lamps

Post by Malcolm » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:43 pm

Lindama wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:24 am

At the risk of being irreverent, I'd say follow your heart. I don't see Norbu lacking in generosity. And, consider this... there is something unhealthy when you can't say no to your guru. If you look thru the zen literature, you'll see this... it is welcomed.
I am afraid you don't understand Rinpoche's point. His point is very simple. It is easy to have misconceptions about thogal teachings if you read them without proper preparation. We see this all the time — people have wild fantasies based on so called "Dzogchen" cosmology, that is, how appearance of the basis arise from the basis, and what "basis" actually means.

When you have misconceptions about Dzogchen teachings, you will block your realization.

Now then, ChNN never said to anyone, "You cannot read thogal texts until you receive thogal teachings from me." He said, "You should not read thogal texts until you have received thogal teachings in a proper way."

Moreover, the presentation of the lamps is markedly different in these two different Dzogchen traditions, their names are different, and so on. Thus, while their meaning is the same, goal is the same, etc., they are different traditions and need to be respected. Just because you have received Bonpo teachings on Dzogchen does not mean you have the proper transmission to read any Buddhist thogal text. There are important differences in the two traditions based on terminology, and so on. Basically, if you want their transmissions, you must go out and seek them from someone qualified to give them, but not just start reading books because after all, we have the first amendment.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

User avatar
Lindama
Posts: 660
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:26 pm
Location: Forestville, CA usa

Re: The Six Lamps

Post by Lindama » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:31 pm

Thanks for the clarification Malcom. I was forgetting the point of the OP. In my limited experience with Tenzin Wangyal, It's the way he teaches and I've heard it from others. Tho, I am guilty of good book karma in the bookstore. I found Heartdrops of Dharmakaya before I knew what Buddhism was. It spoke to me, I didn't know why. It was nearly ten years before I found Tenzin Wangyal thru a friend, and after a while figured out his connection to Lopon Tenzin Namdak and Heartdrops. I can't travel much but made one heroic journey to see them together in Charlottesville. I was able to receive teachings from Tenzin Wangyal twice a year for many years in Berkeley (I live father up north). Tenzin is very specific not to share our material with others, and I have always honored that. This is instructive for me... how much has gone into the mist. I wanted a local teacher and there was zen. grateful for both, for better or worse.
Not last night,
not this morning,
melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho

User avatar
kalden yungdrung
Posts: 2807
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm

Re: The Six Lamps

Post by kalden yungdrung » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:11 am

As long as the inner Guru
Is not fourund
The outer Guru must consulted
As a temporal method

Dzogchen is the way
To find by self experience
This so "difficult" to find
Inner Guru

If this inner Guru is found
The role of the
Outer Guru is finished
There are no secrets anymore

We have 3 kinds of sudents
Low , average and high leveled understanding
The highest level of understandings student
Is the best under the students

Dzogchenpas:
1. The first is the connection through wisdom; the best follower is very bright and clever. That is best.
2. The second is the one who obeys what the Master says.
3. The third one is someone whose connection depends on the offerings he makes to the Master.

Accordingly the 3 level of students the Master will instruct and the student obey.

IMO there are no secrets if a Dzogchenpa is practicing, all hidden experiences are opened as self awareness.
If one dwells inside the house one knows the house to the point.
If one dwells always outside the house one never has a vision about the inside.

It are exactly these types of students who have to ask, more or less their Master for what to do.

If the thinking stops
the thinker is gone
If the inner Guru is found
The outer Guru vanished

For some a long way for others a short way.
Who can tell to you its a long way ?
You or another one ?
Who will find the inner Guru, you or another one ?

In addition:
I have read the
6 Lamps Thödgal, the 6 Dzogchen Yogas and more before i became a Dzogchenpa in Bön Tradition.
I "understood" it right on. later on i saw it all one more time, coming back in the teachings, where i understood it much more to the point.

This means i see no objections in reading "secret" Dzogchen text as preparation to the actual to follow upcoming related teachings.
In that way Lopon Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche wrote Heart Drop of Dharmakaya, a very secret Dzogchen book.
He knew that future students will come to ask him more about Dzogchen.

Then the nice thing of Lopon Las Dzogchen Teachings is, that he teaches Trekchöd and Thödgal as indivisible.
Therefore it goes fast in Bön Dzogchen, to get introduced into the visions with and without colours.

Secrets are there only for very great dummies who follow long ways according their level of understanding.
The best meditation is no meditation

User avatar
kalden yungdrung
Posts: 2807
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm

Re: The Six Lamps

Post by kalden yungdrung » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:58 pm

IN ADDITION:

https://www.namsebangdzo.com/The_Six_La ... 293644.htm

For Bönpos only, to get better informed about the 6 Lamps.
Most Bönpos read this book already, like other "secret Thögal" informations.
Saw it here many times, that by a certain furious DW member has been advised , that here on the Bön forum certain Thödgal topics are forbidden to read etc. In Bön this is seen a little different , i guess so.

Good bookstore , Namse Bangdzo bookstore. :twothumbsup:
Last edited by kalden yungdrung on Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The best meditation is no meditation

User avatar
kalden yungdrung
Posts: 2807
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm

Re: The Six Lamps

Post by kalden yungdrung » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:11 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:31 pm
Lhasa,
That if you have not received teachings like Thogal etc. then you should not read about it. Even if another teacher says it's OK to read it, to you.
That does mean that if a Dzogchen Master as the Bön Yongdzin Rinpoche, Tenzin Namdak la, publishes a book like: Heartdrops of Dharmakaya, that would be a mistake of him ?
Guess that would be a grave mistake to consider that. He for sure knows what he is doing.

So the point is more here the choice of the student and imo every student can make a change to another Master, if wanted and needed, without disrespect one`s Master. Know many who made that choice already.

Dharma pratice is not based on slavery , i guess so, but more on the respects for the needs of personal emancipation , seen the 3 levels of understanding, karma etc.
The best meditation is no meditation

User avatar
hawayana gonzalez
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:33 am

Re: The Six Lamps

Post by hawayana gonzalez » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:54 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:52 am
Can I just read this? Generally speaking, how do Bön teachers feel about people reading texts such as this? Are there any 'requirements' as such, or should one just use their judgment?
I have read the book three times and have not found any specific Thogal instruction with luxuries and details. not even in the root text. Rather descriptions regarding the visions during a retreat in the dark, in chapter six.

User avatar
kalden yungdrung
Posts: 2807
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm

Re: The Six Lamps

Post by kalden yungdrung » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:02 am

hawayana gonzalez wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:54 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:52 am
Can I just read this? Generally speaking, how do Bön teachers feel about people reading texts such as this? Are there any 'requirements' as such, or should one just use their judgment?
I have read the book three times and have not found any specific Thogal instruction with luxuries and details. not even in the root text. Rather descriptions regarding the visions during a retreat in the dark, in chapter six.

Dear Hawayana Gonzalez,


Have a signed book by Lopon La, Heart Drops of Dharmakaya, excellent book.

In HDoD, are explained the 4 visions and their qualities.
Also explained, the 3 yoga postures to get visions easier......

That means that if a Dzogchenpa is practicing, he/she can control afterwards which vision was experienced.
Visions do belong to Thögal and are therefore seen as forbidden to discuss here aboard.

Means we have here certain rules (TOS) , which are part of the member´s contract here.

It also means that there are forums on the web where it is possible to discuss from Dzoghenpa to Dzogchenpa topics like, Thögal,
visions and yoga.

So if one is able to read Heart Drops of Dharmakaya, yes or not, depends upon certain rules of certain Dzogchen Masters.
And like i see it for the moment, it is not allowed for JD, according his Master´s voice.
His Master must tell him if he is ready to read such a book. He is in a Dzogchen Lineage and must there obey ,the rules of the present Master.
But sure JD is here the person in question and he can also make personal considerations, so he already declared not reading such heavy books like Heart Drops of Dharmakaya, according the rules of his Dzogchen Master.

Guess we have to respect that nevertheless we have another vision.


But on the other side of town, Dzogchen students in general don´t have and see problems in reading Dzogchen text as preparation or intellectual Ngöndro.

For me personal have no objections as Dzogchenpa , if others read Dzogchen text, does not the matter what.
Also not to discuss that from Dzogchenpa to Dzogchenpa. The most Bönpos i know, are very well informed about Thögal, so for me it is anyway the custom to discuss these topics from ear to ear , like on Skype.

If a person is serious he/she will go anyway to a Master and follow there the same teachings, but more to the point.
If not , Dzogchen "disappears".


KY.
Last edited by kalden yungdrung on Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
The best meditation is no meditation

User avatar
kalden yungdrung
Posts: 2807
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm

Re: The Six Lamps

Post by kalden yungdrung » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:10 am

Lindama wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:35 am
heartdrops fell off the shelf 25+ years ago, lucky life. have you ever talked to your root guru in person? just what does this all mean? forgive, I obviously don't understand. I can't comprehend how we can judge what we are ready for.
Tashi delek L,

Yes it was some time ago (22 years), since the publication of one of the most easy to read Dzogchen text, Heart Drops of Dharmakaya (HDoD).

My question to you:
- Was it for you easy to understand HDoD, when you read it for the first time ?
- You have been before or after reading the book, introduced to one´s Natural State?
- Would you recommend that book as useful to read ?
The best meditation is no meditation

User avatar
hawayana gonzalez
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:33 am

Re: The Six Lamps

Post by hawayana gonzalez » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:09 am

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:02 am
hawayana gonzalez wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:54 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:52 am
Can I just read this? Generally speaking, how do Bön teachers feel about people reading texts such as this? Are there any 'requirements' as such, or should one just use their judgment?
I have read the book three times and have not found any specific Thogal instruction with luxuries and details. not even in the root text. Rather descriptions regarding the visions during a retreat in the dark, in chapter six.

Dear Hawayana Gonzalez,


Have a signed book by Lopon La, Heart Drops of Dharmakaya, excellent book.

In HDoD, are explained the 4 visions and their qualities.
Also explained, the 3 yoga postures to get visions easier......

That means that if a Dzogchenpa is practicing, he/she can control afterwards which vision was experienced.
Visions do belong to Thögal and are therefore seen as forbidden to discuss here aboard.

Means we have here certain rules (TOS) , which are part of the member´s contract here.

It also means that there are forums on the web where it is possible to discuss from Dzoghenpa to Dzogchenpa topics like, Thögal,
visions and yoga.

So if one is able to read Heart Drops of Dharmakaya, yes or not, depends upon certain rules of certain Dzogchen Masters.
And like i see it for the moment, it is not allowed for JD, according his Master´s voice.
His Master must tell him if he is ready to read such a book. He is in a Dzogchen Lineage and must there obey ,the rules of the present Master.
But sure JD is here the person in question and he can also make personal considerations, so he already declared not reading such heavy books like Heart Drops of Dharmakaya, according the rules of his Dzogchen Master.

Guess we have to respect that nevertheless we have another vision.


But on the other side of town, Dzogchen students in general don´t have and see problems in reading Dzogchen text as preparation or intellectual Ngöndro.

For me personal have no objections as Dzogchenpa , if others read Dzogchen text, does not the matter what.
Also not to discuss that from Dzogchenpa to Dzogchenpa. The most Bönpos i know, are very well informed about Thögal, so for me it is anyway the custom to discuss these topics from ear to ear , like on Skype.

If a person is serious he/she will go anyway to a Master and follow there the same teachings, but more to the point.
If not , Dzogchen "disappears".


KY.
Thanks Kalden, yeah, I have read the book that you mention and it is impressive. Because in my country ( Chile) there is no instructor and less a bön teacher, I have received teachings, practical instructions, advice, and many corrections etc. , via skype and by e-mails, by instructor Wojtek Plucinski, an authorized instructor by TWR and by Ani Sherab Wabgmo. And in fact for now, I am not qualified to practice thogal. I only have a couple of years of practice and I have only been a year with a methodical and daily constant contemplation. And of course, I have very clear that I will not post something that is not due, but I just clarified that I did not read a specific explanation of thogal in JLA´s The Six Lamps book ... :) .

Also I am not doing book-based practices without having someone qualified, such as a teacher or facilitator, who previously certifies the fact that I am qualified to do so ;)

User avatar
kalden yungdrung
Posts: 2807
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm

Re: The Six Lamps

Post by kalden yungdrung » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:42 am

hawayana gonzalez wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:09 am
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:02 am
hawayana gonzalez wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:54 am


I have read the book three times and have not found any specific Thogal instruction with luxuries and details. not even in the root text. Rather descriptions regarding the visions during a retreat in the dark, in chapter six.

Thanks Kalden, yeah, I have read the book that you mention and it is impressive. Because in my country ( Chile) there is no instructor and less a bön teacher, I have received teachings, practical instructions, advice, and many corrections etc. , via skype and by e-mails, by instructor Wojtek Plucinski, an authorized instructor by TWR and by Ani Sherab Wabgmo. And in fact for now, I am not qualified to practice thogal. I only have a couple of years of practice and I have only been a year with a methodical and daily constant contemplation. And of course, I have very clear that I will not post something that is not due, but I just clarified that I did not read a specific explanation of thogal in JLA´s The Six Lamps book ... :) .

Also I am not doing book-based practices without having someone qualified, such as a teacher or facilitator, who previously certifies the fact that I am qualified to do so ;)

Tashi delek HG,

Very good that you know certain Dzogchen text that deals with Tögal.

All those text related to Thögal and Trekchöd are easy to follow by a Dzogchenpa, because of the recognition during one´s practice. Without practice , Dzogchen is more difficult to follow.

To have a help regarding all matters regarding Dzogchen , that is very good. In your situation Skype is an outcome as well forums like DW etc.

It is ok that you read books related to Thögal and Trekchöd, as preparation for the future.
The more a Dzogchenpa is doing the practice, the more the Bodhicitta is not so secret anymore like in the beginning.

Books can be a preparation for one´s practice or a help during one´s practice and they can be secret in case of very great dummies and if one is a dummy then some protection would be great, in the form of do not do this and do not do that etc.

But i guess that students with higher level of understanding are Dzogchenpas and these folks in general do not have problems with /understanding " secret" Dzogchen litereature, because their Mind is already self known / experienced to them.

I guess anyway that one never can forbid for intelligent people to read "secret" Dzogchen literature.
Many make a try to forbid but the curiosity from many say no to that and start reading secret books.

The more it is forbidden the more those books are attractive, to read.

Long time ago in Tibet one could forbid because there were no bookshops, web etc. That was effective , but nowadays with our webshop , email etc., everybody can get those "secret" books /informations.

So its up to the Dzogchenpas to obey or not to certain rules.

Therefore imo opinion to forbid this reading that is old fashion, because one CAN read it if one want.
And that does count for sure for all non Dzogchenpas who can buy such books at the corner of the street.
Lets hope that these folks do not end in the mad house :crying:
Maybe these non Dzogchenpas will become great future Dzogchenpas because the reading of these "secrets".

Know some persons who after reading of "secret" Dzogchen books became Dzogchenpas and did not end in the mad house.

Mutsuk Marro
KY.
The best meditation is no meditation

User avatar
Garudavista
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:36 pm

Re: The Six Lamps

Post by Garudavista » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:39 pm

JD,
Here's some information you might find helpful. Chongtrul Rinpoche is holding a four-day retreat on The Six Lamps in May. The retreat information is posted at http://www.bonshenling.org/six-lamps-retreat. However, registration for this retreat hasn't opened yet because the retreat manager still needs to finalize some details before opening it. Check it out:



Six Lamps Teaching
Four-Day Retreat
May 25-28, 2018 West Cornwall, CT

The Six Lamps is one of the most important Bon Dzogchen teachings, guiding the student to a direct experience of the luminous self-awareness that is the nature of mind. The practice of the Six Lamps starts with a meditative introduction to our own inner light, then progressively helps us to clearly discriminate between our ordinary mind and our wisdom mind. As we come to realize that all arising phenomena ultimately manifest from our pure wisdom mind, this journey of the Six Lamps is a powerful path to self-liberation.
The Six Lamps:

· Lamp of the essential point of the abiding presence of the primordial base, and the recognition of the arising of self-awareness from within this luminous expanse.

· Lamp of the essential point of where the primordial base and internal arising of self-awareness are situated.

· Lamp of the essential point of the path for the unimpeded arising of transcendent, penetrating wisdom awareness.

· Lamp of the essential point of the door through which the visions of pure awareness come forth.

· Lamp of the essential point of how to directly ascertain the wisdom of the three bodies.

· Lamp of the essential point of the bardo moment when delusion and realization, samsara and liberation, intertwine and diverge.

This remarkable teaching can be of great benefit to all seeking the true nature of mind through self-liberation. Chongtul Rinpoche’s sharing of this ancient, transformative wisdom is an extraordinary opportunity to receive this teaching from a contemporary Dzogchen master.
RETREAT DETAILS

Dates: Friday, May 25, 2018 (check-in at 4pm) through Monday, May 28, 2018 (check out at 11am). Please make arrangements with the retreat manager if you plan to arrive later than the check-in period. If you need lodging at the venue before or after the retreat, we can arrange it for you.

Venue: Trinity Retreat Center, 79 Lower River Road, West Cornwall, Connecticut. The retreat center webpage is located here.

Rooms: All rooms have a private bath, and linens, towels and soap are provided. Handicap accessible rooms are available upon request.

Single rooms have one king bed. There is a limited number of single rooms available; please contact the Retreat Manager for availability and to reserve a room.

Suite rooms are larger with more room and better views. There are a limited number of suites available which will be assigned on a first-come, first-served basis by contacting the Retreat Manager.

Double rooms have either one king bed or two twin beds. If you know whom you would like to share a room with, please write his/her name in the comments section of the registration form, and indicate whether you prefer one king bed or two twin beds. Couples wishing to share a room should each register for the double room option.

Registration: Early-bird registration is a savings of $75 and continues on a space-available basis through Feb. 24, 2018. After Feb. 24, 2018, retreat prices will increase and the regular registration period will continue through the final registration deadline of Apr. 24, 2018. Rooms at the retreat center are not guaranteed until payment in full has been received.

Each person attending the retreat should fill out a registration form even if his/her retreat fee is paid by someone else.

Meals: All meals include both vegetarian and non-vegetarian entrees. We regret that we will not be able to accommodate vegan, gluten free or any other special dietary requests.

CANCELLATION POLICY

10% admin fee for cancellations through Feb. 24, 2018.
50% refund for cancellations through Mar. 24, 2018.
No refund available beginning Apr. 24, 2018.

Bon Shen Ling reserves the right to cancel programs up to 30 days prior to the event. If Bon Shen Ling cancels the event, all participants will receive a full refund of payment. In the event of program cancellation, Bon Shen Ling shall not be responsible for any losses participants may incur as a result of travel or other expenses related to the event.

REGISTRATION
Early-bird rates through Feb. 24, 2018
Prices are all-inclusive per person

Non Member
$550 single room
$500 suite room shared
$430 double room shared

Supporting Member
$525 single room
$475 suite room shared
$410 double room shared

Sustaining Member
$495 single room
$450 suite room shared
$390 double room shared

PAYMENT METHODS
Check payable to: Bon Shen Ling
Mail to: Suzanne Bird
18 Society Hill Way
Tinton Falls, NJ 07724

PayPal: info@bonshenling.org

Credit or debit card via PayPal: see buttons below

Phone: call Retreat Manager Suzanne Bird at (732) 688-6448 with your credit card information

tingdzin
Posts: 1022
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:19 am

Re: The Six Lamps

Post by tingdzin » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:48 am

It still leaves me with a bit of confusion on the larger issue, since Bönpo teachers simply seem to talk about Thogal more openly - including when people have no transmission, but it seems that if I simply avoid reading about stuff that ChNN recommends I not read for now, it mostly solves the problem.
[/quote]

Yes, that's it. Don't need to try and read everything now, let alone practice it, if you recognize you're not ready anyway. People who counsel you otherwise are probably being defensive about their own situations.

User avatar
Lindama
Posts: 660
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:26 pm
Location: Forestville, CA usa

Re: The Six Lamps

Post by Lindama » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:06 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:10 am
Lindama wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:35 am
heartdrops fell off the shelf 25+ years ago, lucky life. have you ever talked to your root guru in person? just what does this all mean? forgive, I obviously don't understand. I can't comprehend how we can judge what we are ready for.
Tashi delek L,

Yes it was some time ago (22 years), since the publication of one of the most easy to read Dzogchen text, Heart Drops of Dharmakaya (HDoD).

My question to you:
- Was it for you easy to understand HDoD, when you read it for the first time ?
- You have been before or after reading the book, introduced to one´s Natural State?
- Would you recommend that book as useful to read ?
It's been years since I have read the book. I still have it and it would be good to connect again. For me, I intuitively connected with it... did I understand? I can't say yes or no. There was a recognition. I connected with one of Lama Yeshe's thin book on Tantra like that.... and Dilgo Khentse's picture on an altar tho I had no idea who he was. Heartdrops was my first touch into Dzogchen and Buddhism. I had no idea that it was Dzogchen or what that was. Yes, after that I had teachings on the Natural State, it felt right for me. I can't travel so practiced dzogchen best I could in my local zen sangha which was pretty casual about zen instruction. Subsequently, I did receive 6 Lamps teaching from Tenzin Wangyal, among others, locally. I am well aware of what folks say about dzogchen teaching/training on this forum. The book made an immediate impression on me, I can't say how folks would connect with it. It's so individual. I don't read books to understand. Perhaps, the heart connection helps. I seem to find an intuitive connection with some books. Don't read much these days for better or worse.

:namaste:
linda
Not last night,
not this morning,
melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho

User avatar
Lindama
Posts: 660
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:26 pm
Location: Forestville, CA usa

Re: The Six Lamps

Post by Lindama » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:36 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:11 am
This means i see no objections in reading "secret" Dzogchen text as preparation to the actual to follow upcoming related teachings.
In that way Lopon Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche wrote Heart Drop of Dharmakaya, a very secret Dzogchen book.
He knew that future students will come to ask him more about Dzogchen.
Thank you for the longer explanation in your post above.

I just noticed this.... quite a few years ago, I did travel to Ligmincha to see Lopon. It took literally every $$ I had. Very happy that I made the trip, it all fell in so easily. I don't have means to travel, except this once. So grateful to be with Lopon and Tenzin on retreat. :heart:
Not last night,
not this morning,
melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho

User avatar
kalden yungdrung
Posts: 2807
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm

Re: The Six Lamps

Post by kalden yungdrung » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:57 pm

Lindama wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:06 pm


Tashi delek L,

Yes it was some time ago (22 years), since the publication of one of the most easy to read Dzogchen text, Heart Drops of Dharmakaya (HDoD).

My question to you:
- Was it for you easy to understand HDoD, when you read it for the first time ?
- You have been before or after reading the book, introduced to one´s Natural State?
- Would you recommend that book as useful to read ?
It's been years since I have read the book. I still have it and it would be good to connect again. For me, I intuitively connected with it... did I understand? I can't say yes or no. There was a recognition. I connected with one of Lama Yeshe's thin book on Tantra like that.... and Dilgo Khentse's picture on an altar tho I had no idea who he was. Heartdrops was my first touch into Dzogchen and Buddhism. I had no idea that it was Dzogchen or what that was. Yes, after that I had teachings on the Natural State, it felt right for me. I can't travel so practiced dzogchen best I could in my local zen sangha which was pretty casual about zen instruction. Subsequently, I did receive 6 Lamps teaching from Tenzin Wangyal, among others, locally. I am well aware of what folks say about dzogchen teaching/training on this forum. The book made an immediate impression on me, I can't say how folks would connect with it. It's so individual. I don't read books to understand. Perhaps, the heart connection helps. I seem to find an intuitive connection with some books. Don't read much these days for better or worse.

:namaste:
linda
[/quote]


Tashi delek L,

Thanks for your post.

After the reading of the Book HDoD, you got a certain recognition.
Guess HDoD, gave you some insight into what is Mind.
When i understood it well, then you got your Introduction (in your Natural State), after the reading of the book :" Heart Drops of Dharmakaya".

The introduction in the Nartural State was done by Lopon Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche, when you visited Ligmincha / USA.


- So HDoD was very helpful for you, as well before and after the introduction into the Natural State ?
( Anyway good karma if one can read HDoD)
- Then you can practice Trekchöd and maybe also Thögal ?



Best wishes
KY.
The best meditation is no meditation

User avatar
kalden yungdrung
Posts: 2807
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm

Re: The Six Lamps

Post by kalden yungdrung » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:46 pm

Lindama wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:36 pm
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:11 am
This means i see no objections in reading "secret" Dzogchen text as preparation to the actual to follow upcoming related teachings.
In that way Lopon Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche wrote Heart Drop of Dharmakaya, a very secret Dzogchen book.
He knew that future students will come to ask him more about Dzogchen.
Thank you for the longer explanation in your post above.

I just noticed this.... quite a few years ago, I did travel to Ligmincha to see Lopon. It took literally every $$ I had. Very happy that I made the trip, it all fell in so easily. I don't have means to travel, except this once. So grateful to be with Lopon and Tenzin on retreat. :heart:

Good karma to be in touch with Lopon Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche.
Lopon La is the best Dzogchen Master, we have in Bön.
The best meditation is no meditation

User avatar
kalden yungdrung
Posts: 2807
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm

Re: The Six Lamps

Post by kalden yungdrung » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:08 pm

Garudavista wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:39 pm
JD,
Here's some information you might find helpful. Chongtrul Rinpoche is holding a four-day retreat on The Six Lamps in May. The retreat information is posted at http://www.bonshenling.org/six-lamps-retreat. However, registration for this retreat hasn't opened yet because the retreat manager still needs to finalize some details before opening it. Check it out:



Six Lamps Teaching
Four-Day Retreat
May 25-28, 2018 West Cornwall, CT

The Six Lamps is one of the most important Bon Dzogchen teachings, guiding the student to a direct experience of the luminous self-awareness that is the nature of mind. The practice of the Six Lamps starts with a meditative introduction to our own inner light, then progressively helps us to clearly discriminate between our ordinary mind and our wisdom mind. As we come to realize that all arising phenomena ultimately manifest from our pure wisdom mind, this journey of the Six Lamps is a powerful path to self-liberation.
The Six Lamps:

· Lamp of the essential point of the abiding presence of the primordial base, and the recognition of the arising of self-awareness from within this luminous expanse.

· Lamp of the essential point of where the primordial base and internal arising of self-awareness are situated.

· Lamp of the essential point of the path for the unimpeded arising of transcendent, penetrating wisdom awareness.

· Lamp of the essential point of the door through which the visions of pure awareness come forth.

· Lamp of the essential point of how to directly ascertain the wisdom of the three bodies.

· Lamp of the essential point of the bardo moment when delusion and realization, samsara and liberation, intertwine and diverge.

This remarkable teaching can be of great benefit to all seeking the true nature of mind through self-liberation. Chongtul Rinpoche’s sharing of this ancient, transformative wisdom is an extraordinary opportunity to receive this teaching from a contemporary Dzogchen master.
RETREAT DETAILS

Dates: Friday, May 25, 2018 (check-in at 4pm) through Monday, May 28, 2018 (check out at 11am). Please make arrangements with the retreat manager if you plan to arrive later than the check-in period. If you need lodging at the venue before or after the retreat, we can arrange it for you.

Venue: Trinity Retreat Center, 79 Lower River Road, West Cornwall, Connecticut. The retreat center webpage is located here.

Rooms: All rooms have a private bath, and linens, towels and soap are provided. Handicap accessible rooms are available upon request.

Single rooms have one king bed. There is a limited number of single rooms available; please contact the Retreat Manager for availability and to reserve a room.

Suite rooms are larger with more room and better views. There are a limited number of suites available which will be assigned on a first-come, first-served basis by contacting the Retreat Manager.

Double rooms have either one king bed or two twin beds. If you know whom you would like to share a room with, please write his/her name in the comments section of the registration form, and indicate whether you prefer one king bed or two twin beds. Couples wishing to share a room should each register for the double room option.

Registration: Early-bird registration is a savings of $75 and continues on a space-available basis through Feb. 24, 2018. After Feb. 24, 2018, retreat prices will increase and the regular registration period will continue through the final registration deadline of Apr. 24, 2018. Rooms at the retreat center are not guaranteed until payment in full has been received.

Each person attending the retreat should fill out a registration form even if his/her retreat fee is paid by someone else.

Meals: All meals include both vegetarian and non-vegetarian entrees. We regret that we will not be able to accommodate vegan, gluten free or any other special dietary requests.

CANCELLATION POLICY

10% admin fee for cancellations through Feb. 24, 2018.
50% refund for cancellations through Mar. 24, 2018.
No refund available beginning Apr. 24, 2018.

Bon Shen Ling reserves the right to cancel programs up to 30 days prior to the event. If Bon Shen Ling cancels the event, all participants will receive a full refund of payment. In the event of program cancellation, Bon Shen Ling shall not be responsible for any losses participants may incur as a result of travel or other expenses related to the event.

REGISTRATION
Early-bird rates through Feb. 24, 2018
Prices are all-inclusive per person

Non Member
$550 single room
$500 suite room shared
$430 double room shared

Supporting Member
$525 single room
$475 suite room shared
$410 double room shared

Sustaining Member
$495 single room
$450 suite room shared
$390 double room shared

PAYMENT METHODS
Check payable to: Bon Shen Ling
Mail to: Suzanne Bird
18 Society Hill Way
Tinton Falls, NJ 07724

PayPal: info@bonshenling.org

Credit or debit card via PayPal: see buttons below

Phone: call Retreat Manager Suzanne Bird at (732) 688-6448 with your credit card information

Tashi delek G,

Yes, Foundation Bön Shen Ling, organizes the 6 Lamps teachings on an annual base, i see.
Posted by you on: Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:17 pm
viewtopic.php?f=78&t=25918

Am glad not to encounter problems in following non-secret Bön teachings, it gives me a feeling of freedom and self responsibility, which i and other Bönpos can handle easy. As intellectual preparation like recognizing etc. these "secret" teachings are as preparation, excellent.

But like always what for the one is medicine is for the other one poison and vice versa, depends on the doctors receipt / remedie.
Therefore, to choose the right doctor is of essential importance

Have a nice day

KY.
The best meditation is no meditation

User avatar
kalden yungdrung
Posts: 2807
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm

Re: The Six Lamps

Post by kalden yungdrung » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:20 am

IN ADDITION:

Tashi delek DW members,

Like you would know now, in Bön are the 6 lamps in no way a secret.
That does not mean that Bönpos can discuss this openly here, because it is outside Bön forbidden to do so.

So this Bön sub form is stamped here by a certain DW member, who controls what is allowed and not allowed to post here, and then i do not mean mods and administrators. :thinking:

-----------------------------

viewtopic.php?f=78&t=20390
The best meditation is no meditation

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests