Buddha Tönpa Shenrab Miwoche & Buddha Shakyamuni

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kalden yungdrung
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Buddha Tönpa Shenrab Miwoche & Buddha Shakyamuni

Post by kalden yungdrung » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:20 am

Tashi delek,

Want to explain here the Bön story about the connection of Buddha Tönpa Shenrab Miwoche and his student the Nepali /Indian Buddha Shakyamuni.
For Bön this is very clear but for non Bönpos this is not / never known.
Am aware that non Bönpos would never agree to this, but it is nevertheless a fact within the Yungdrung Bön tradition.

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Buddha Tönpa Shenrab Miwoche - 056 a.jpg
Buddha Tönpa Shenrab Miwoche - 056 a.jpg (301.61 KiB) Viewed 697 times
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By: Alejandro Chaoul.

Alejandro is a devoted student for 15 years of Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche.

The Bön traditions' own accounts of the history of their scriptures have them undergoing triple or even quadruple translations between the language of origin and the present Tibetan versions. The triply translated (sum gyur) texts generally went from Tazig to Zhang Zhung to Tibetan, while the quadruple translated texts generally went from 'divine language' (lha'i skad) to Sanskrit to Tazig to Zhang zhung to Tibetan.

In these accounts, Buddha Tönpa Shenrab was Shakyamuni Buddha's teacher during 2 consecutive incarnations. In the first of these, Buddha Tönpa Shenrab, was named Chime Tsugphu ('Chi med gtsug phud, "Immortal Crowned One")land Shakyamuni Buddha was one of his main disciples, Sangwa Dupa (gsang ba 'dus pa, "Essential Secret").

In the following life, in which Buddha Tönpa Shenrab was named Tönpa Shenrab, Shakyamuni Buddha was again one of his main disciples, Lhabu Dampa Karpo (Lha'i bu dam pa dkar po, "White Pure Son of the Gods").
Lhabu Dampa Karpo asked his teacher what he could do to help sentient beings, and Buddha Tönpa Shenrab told him that he should help the people in India who were following there a wrong view. For that purpose, Buddha Tönpa Shenrab gave Lhabu Dampa Karpo an initiation so he would not forget the teachings in his future lives.

Thus, in the next life he was born in India as Prince of the Shakya clan and taught, following the instructions previously given to him by his teacher, Buddha Tönpa Shenrab Miwoche, thereby benefiting many sentient beings.
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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Buddha Tönpa Shenrab Miwoche & Buddha Shakyamuni

Post by kalden yungdrung » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:44 pm

IN ADDITION:

Buddha Tönpa Shenrab Miwoche, the founder of Bön Tradition.

Remarkable of Bön is that we can prove the existence of Buddha Tönpa Shenrab Miwoche, by his direct descendants, the family Clan.

In Vajrayana Buddhism this is not the case, that there are direct family descendants in the blood line.
Maybe because Rahula , Buddha Shakyamuni´s Son, was a monk.
The Dharma of the Nepali Shakya Buddha is enough, to prove his existence, no doubt about it.

Both Traditions can prove the existence of their Lineage with Scriptures / Termas, Tulkus, families and their many (sub) lineages.
Some have had even an oral transmission of Dharma and Mind to Mind.


See also:
viewtopic.php?f=78&t=20473
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Grigoris
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Re: Buddha Tönpa Shenrab Miwoche & Buddha Shakyamuni

Post by Grigoris » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:50 pm

So you are doubting the existence of the historical Buddha because (as an ascetic and because his only child was an ascetic) there are no living descendants?

Is that the essence of your argument?
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Re: Buddha Tönpa Shenrab Miwoche & Buddha Shakyamuni

Post by Miroku » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:19 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:50 pm
So you are doubting the existence of the historical Buddha because (as an ascetic and because his only child was an ascetic) there are no living descendants?

Is that the essence of your argument?
Nope. He does not doubt his existence. He clearly wrote that existence of dharma is enough for a proof. Instead this is somewhat similar to the whole "good Bönpo Padmasambhava" vs "bad anti-Bönpo Padmasambhava" spiel. Now I understand why Malcolm wrote it would be hard for someone to practice both Bön and Buddhism and bring together their views of history. Buddhist underplayed the part of Bön in Tibetan history and culture and Bön took the other way and presented its own version of history with a handful of Forrest Gump spice.
A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.
~ Khunu Lama Rinpoche

Even non-buddhists have many virtuous accomplishments
~ Jigten Sumgon

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Re: Buddha Tönpa Shenrab Miwoche & Buddha Shakyamuni

Post by Grigoris » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:44 pm

Why would somebody make a point, only to counter it?

And what is a "Nepali Shakya Buddha"?

Was there even a country called Nepal when Buddha was born and lived ?

Is there a Shakya Buddha that is not from the region of Nepal?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Buddha Tönpa Shenrab Miwoche & Buddha Shakyamuni

Post by lelopa » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:28 pm

Miroku wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:19 pm


Nope. He does not doubt his existence. He clearly wrote that existence of dharma is enough for a proof. Instead this is somewhat similar to the whole "good Bönpo Padmasambhava" vs "bad anti-Bönpo Padmasambhava" spiel. Now I understand why Malcolm wrote it would be hard for someone to practice both Bön and Buddhism and bring together their views of history. Buddhist underplayed the part of Bön in Tibetan history and culture and Bön took the other way and presented its own version of history with a handful of Forrest Gump spice.
It is not hard to practice both....

ok... maybe it would be hard for people who take everything they read in the literal sense.
Last edited by lelopa on Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Buddha Tönpa Shenrab Miwoche & Buddha Shakyamuni

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:30 pm

lelopa wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:28 pm

ok... maybe it would be hard for people who take everything they read in the literal sense.
This is definitely the case, I've seen it deeply vex people on both sides.
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No piling up for the future;
Those who have been born are standing
Like a seed upon a needle.

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Miroku
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Re: Buddha Tönpa Shenrab Miwoche & Buddha Shakyamuni

Post by Miroku » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:02 pm

lelopa wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:28 pm
Miroku wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:19 pm


Nope. He does not doubt his existence. He clearly wrote that existence of dharma is enough for a proof. Instead this is somewhat similar to the whole "good Bönpo Padmasambhava" vs "bad anti-Bönpo Padmasambhava" spiel. Now I understand why Malcolm wrote it would be hard for someone to practice both Bön and Buddhism and bring together their views of history. Buddhist underplayed the part of Bön in Tibetan history and culture and Bön took the other way and presented its own version of history with a handful of Forrest Gump spice.
It is not hard to practice both....

ok... maybe it would be hard for people who take everything they read in the literal sense.
Sorry my mistake, I wrote the sentence poorly. The main emphasis is on the historical views. One can practice both with a relative ease.
A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.
~ Khunu Lama Rinpoche

Even non-buddhists have many virtuous accomplishments
~ Jigten Sumgon

Sherab Rigdrol
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Re: Buddha Tönpa Shenrab Miwoche & Buddha Shakyamuni

Post by Sherab Rigdrol » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:34 pm

Ok, this is mirroring your previous thread in the dzogchen subforum, which was answered adequately.

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