6 Yogas

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kalden yungdrung
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6 Yogas

Post by kalden yungdrung » Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:18 pm

Tashi delek,

The 6 Yogas, practised in Kagyud like the 6 Yogas of Naropa / Niguma.

Geluk version of the 6 Yogas was received as a transmission from the Zhalu Sakya school, where it had been received earlier as a transmission from the Drikung Kagyu master, Pal Pakmo Drupa.

Remarkable that in Kagyud the consciousness transference to a death body was replaced by dream yoga.
In Bön it is still maintained the transference of consciousness to a death body.

===========================

- Why is in Kagyud, the transference of consciousness replaced by dream yoga ?


.

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conebeckham
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Re: 6 Yogas

Post by conebeckham » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:58 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:18 pm
Tashi delek,

The 6 Yogas, practised in Kagyud like the 6 Yogas of Naropa / Niguma.

Geluk version of the 6 Yogas was received as a transmission from the Zhalu Sakya school, where it had been received earlier as a transmission from the Drikung Kagyu master, Pal Pakmo Drupa.

Remarkable that in Kagyud the consciousness transference to a death body was replaced by dream yoga.
In Bön it is still maintained the transference of consciousness to a death body.

===========================

- Why is in Kagyud, the transference of consciousness replaced by dream yoga ?
It's not really "replaced" by Dream Yoga, in either Naro Cho Druk or Nigu Chu Druk. Phowa, "Transference of Consciousness," is listed as one of Naropa's Six Yogas, and it's also in Niguma's system. As for where the consciousness is transferred, it's said that Marpa's lineage lost that capability to transfer to another body, but there are some reports that is not true. Additionally, there are stories in the Shangpa of this sort of technique.

But the main reason Dream Yoga is a primary practice is that it is aimed at this life. Phowa, in most of it's forms, is a "fail-safe" if the main practices--Tummo, Gyu Lu, Osel and Mi Lam--cannot be actualized. Bardo is also a "fail-safe," usually. However, both Phowa and Bardo can be ultimately liberating, as well.

I don't really think that chart provides exact correspondences. Also, you can compare the Kalacakra completion stage yogas to these, as well.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: 6 Yogas

Post by kalden yungdrung » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:35 pm

conebeckham wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:58 pm
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:18 pm
Tashi delek,

The 6 Yogas, practised in Kagyud like the 6 Yogas of Naropa / Niguma.

Geluk version of the 6 Yogas was received as a transmission from the Zhalu Sakya school, where it had been received earlier as a transmission from the Drikung Kagyu master, Pal Pakmo Drupa.

Remarkable that in Kagyud the consciousness transference to a death body was replaced by dream yoga.
In Bön it is still maintained the transference of consciousness to a death body.

===========================

- Why is in Kagyud, the transference of consciousness replaced by dream yoga ?
It's not really "replaced" by Dream Yoga, in either Naro Cho Druk or Nigu Chu Druk. Phowa, "Transference of Consciousness," is listed as one of Naropa's Six Yogas, and it's also in Niguma's system. As for where the consciousness is transferred, it's said that Marpa's lineage lost that capability to transfer to another body, but there are some reports that is not true. Additionally, there are stories in the Shangpa of this sort of technique.

But the main reason Dream Yoga is a primary practice is that it is aimed at this life. Phowa, in most of it's forms, is a "fail-safe" if the main practices--Tummo, Gyu Lu, Osel and Mi Lam--cannot be actualized. Bardo is also a "fail-safe," usually. However, both Phowa and Bardo can be ultimately liberating, as well.

I don't really think that chart provides exact correspondences. Also, you can compare the Kalacakra completion stage yogas to these, as well.
Transference of consciousness related to the death body that was here my question.

So if i understood you well then Shangpa Kagyud has this transference of consciousness related with fresh death bodies whereas the Marpa Lineage lost it.

- Why is the the Lineage of ex Bönpo Kyungpo Näldjor this transferring of conciousness related to fresh death bodies still practised ?
- How must i understand " But there are some reports that is not true ?

Marpa Lineage is Karma Kagyud maybe ?

Then:
But the main reason Dream Yoga is a primary practice is that it is aimed at this life.
Transference of consciousness to death fresh bodies is also a practise in this life, besides that we know always somehow Bardo States.

That chart gives sure a real explanation according Shardza Tashi Gyaltsens Kusum Rangshar and can be taken as realistic i guess so.
If i would place the same example at Kagyu sub forum you would be right of course, isn´t it?
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conebeckham
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Re: 6 Yogas

Post by conebeckham » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:18 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:35 pm

===========================

- Why is in Kagyud, the transference of consciousness replaced by dream yoga ?

Transference of consciousness related to the death body that was here my question.

So if i understood you well then Shangpa Kagyud has this transference of consciousness related with fresh death bodies whereas the Marpa Lineage lost it.

- Why is the the Lineage of ex Bönpo Kyungpo Näldjor this transferring of conciousness related to fresh death bodies still practised ?
- How must i understand " But there are some reports that is not true ?
I have heard that this tradition of transfer to a fresh corpse exists, or existed, in the Shangpa, even after it had been evidently lost to Marpa's lineage with Marpa's son, but I don't have any more details.
But the main reason Dream Yoga is a primary practice is that it is aimed at this life.
Transference of consciousness to death fresh bodies is also a practise in this life, besides that we know always somehow Bardo States.

That chart gives sure a real explanation according Shardza Tashi Gyaltsens Kusum Rangshar and can be taken as realistic i guess so.
If i would place the same example at Kagyu sub forum you would be right of course, isn´t it?
Transference to another body is a "last resort" for someone whose own flesh and blood body is going to be extinguished. One bypasses some of the Bardos in that way. Dream Yoga actually deals with the Bardo of Dream, which is a bardo we human beings traverse on a daily basis, whether we know it or not. The technique makes use of "this life" to liberate oneself. Tummo and Gyu Lu also work with our current existence or embodiment. Phowa, too, does that, though it's most often used at the end of one's embodiment, and Bardo is most applicable to the transitional state between our current embodiment and the next one.

As for the chart, for example, in the Bon column one has "exercises for removing hindrances" and there is nothing in that row for the other two columns, but there are clearly exercises for removing hindrances in the Naro and Nigu systems....also in the Sukha Cho Druk system. Shangpa also has a separate section of "trulkhor-like" exercises associated with the fruition practices of Deathless of Body and Mind and Non-Entering Samsara and Nirvana, and these differ from the Trulkhor associated with Cho Druk.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: 6 Yogas

Post by kalden yungdrung » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:57 pm

conebeckham wrote:
Transference to another body is a "last resort" for someone whose own flesh and blood body is going to be extinguished. One bypasses some of the Bardos in that way. Dream Yoga actually deals with the Bardo of Dream, which is a bardo we human beings traverse on a daily basis, whether we know it or not. The technique makes use of "this life" to liberate oneself. Tummo and Gyu Lu also work with our current existence or embodiment. Phowa, too, does that, though it's most often used at the end of one's embodiment, and Bardo is most applicable to the transitional state between our current embodiment and the next one.

As for the chart, for example, in the Bon column one has "exercises for removing hindrances" and there is nothing in that row for the other two columns, but there are clearly exercises for removing hindrances in the Naro and Nigu systems....also in the Sukha Cho Druk system. Shangpa also has a separate section of "trulkhor-like" exercises associated with the fruition practices of Deathless of Body and Mind and Non-Entering Samsara and Nirvana, and these differ from the Trulkhor associated with Cho Druk.
Tashi delek CB,

As a last resort , that i would not state, regarding this special way of Transference.
Sure it has some advantages, as we consider some illness of the physical body.
The transference to Death Body is a kind of Phowa , when i understood Shardza Tashi Gyaltsen´s explanation well.
This technic, not used anymore in Kagyud is seen in Bön as beneficial for those who can do it.
It is based on the accumulation of good karma and it is practised very skilful by the highest level of practitioner without hindrances.
Like i understood for the lower levels , they need a second person for securing the transference.......
As a last would i say that it is a skilful way to operate in the Bardos for the welfare of sentient beings, which have also the Tulkus.
====================


By: Shardza Tashi Gyaltsen Rinpoche / Kusum Rangshar .


Shar rdza Rinpoche says that there are 3 types of hosts for consciousness-transference (Phowa):
( depending on the capacity of the practitioner.)

Dharmakaya, no return / Best practitioner
Sambhogakaya, Manifestjoy Buddha-field or to the Buddha-field inhabited by his or her personal tutelary deity or yi dam / midling practitioner
Nirmanakaya, The lesser practitioner

Transference of consciousness to a fresh death corpse is not so without risks , therefore understandable that this practise is not so maintained by other Traditions. It is also called the razor's edge of consciousness transference.

In earlier times, a great ,Zhang ,Zhung yogi, whose name is Hring ni Ha ras, entered into the corpse of a vulture, and through doing so went to the place of the gods. [After that] also [as a vulture he] stayed at a charnel ground and ate corpses there.

Because of that, all of them [the deceased bodies at the charnel ground] attained bliss. He also entered into a carnivorous animal. Because of that he was able to liberate other beasts on this narrow path and protect them from danger. He was also able to enter into the corpse of a flesh-eating demon, and because of that could turn back and def eat an entire army of flesh-eating demons and subdue them. He was able to enter into the corpse of a giant fish, and because of that he could protect an entire village of fisherman and
protect them from the danger of starvation, and so forth.

Similar to this [story] is to consider [serving] the immeasurable purpose of all sentient beings. For example, it says in the 'Phen lam [Yoga ef Propelling], "Entering the corpse of a bird you fly to the Buddha land of '0l Mo lung gling. By taking up a precious jewel [of some kind of body] you are able to give [to others]. By entering the body of a carnivorous corpse, you free others from the narrow path of danger.

By entering the corpse of a flesh-eating demon you turn back the battle with enemies and free them from the troubles of war. The warring flesh-eating demons and gods become the protectors of the teachings of Buddhahood.

By entering the corpse of a human you plant the tree of virtue. The treasure of the ocean of positive qualities is never-ending and never declining. If you enter the corpse of a Naga you stop the path of endless starvation by giving a body

Using this new body as a support to serve the welfare of sentient beings or to continue teaching in this new body, Shar rdza Rinpoche says,

"There are no words to describe serving the immeasurable benefits of beings [that will ensue]" . The only motivation proper to support
dead-entering is for extending life in a different body so as to serve the welfare of sentient beings, and this practice is prohibited for those who have self-serving motives.

When the duration of your own physical body expires, you have become aged or weakened, or you have contracted a serious illness like leprosy, dysentery, etc., or if you want to make an exchange of physical bodies in order to develop positive qualities, or you wish never to lose your memory, or if you wish to [accomplish] immeasurable benefits for other beings, then [choose] a corpse with the pure marks of coming from a good family line, which is clean, and with no marks from weapons, and which has no deformities, contagious infections, or leprosy.
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Re: 6 Yogas

Post by AmidaB » Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:15 pm

Tashi delek to all,

Pure speculation here but maybe it will be useful in some way. At least somebody will be so kind to correct my utterly false views.

Food for thought sidenote (1): I have asked Mr. Jean-Luc Achard about the reason of the close co-existence of grong 'jug and las kyi phyag rGya practices in some texts. He answered that he didn't know why.

Food for thought sidenote (2): The freshness and other conditions of the corpse is crucial - so how fresh corpse is needed? Is it a living body with minimal life sings?

What do yo do if you want a near ultimate proof for the independency of some/one kind of consciousness? Do you want an experimental dive into nonduality?

Who transfer and what?

Food for thought sidenote (3):https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/ques ... ra-dharmic

Best,
ab

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: 6 Yogas

Post by kalden yungdrung » Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:15 am

IN ADDITION:

Tumo / Dummo seems to be the basic exercise somehow for cave yogis.

Who can manage the Dummo heat can manage his/her health in an easy way.

========================

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Re: 6 Yogas

Post by kalden yungdrung » Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:37 am

IN ADDIITION:

Dream Yoga a good practise as preparation for the Bardo.
Dream State is very similar to the Death State experience.
A good practise to overcome fear.

In general we have clear and karmic dreams.
Most of the dreams are based on daily karma.

=======================

By: Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche




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Re: 6 Yogas

Post by kalden yungdrung » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:59 am

--- THE POWER OF TUMMO ---

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After Rinpoche’s appearance in the National Geographic show “The story of God with Morgan Freeman” where he explained the ancient Tantrayana Buddhism practice of Tummo and its power to connect us to “the divine within”, Tulku-la will now give a free live lecture about the power of Tummo.

Tulku Lobsang has a very special connection to Tummo, the practice of awakening our Inner Fire. It is Rinpoche’s specialty and he shares this secret practice openly because he believes it can bring great benefit in these degenerate times. Tummo is a precious method of the Tantrayana tradition and if it is not taught and practiced, then it will no longer be a living teaching. That’s the reason why in this free lecture Tulku Lobsang Rinpoche will introduce us to this technique and will explain the benefits of practicing Tummo, the Inner Fire practice.

---

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SUBSCRIBE TO OUR NEWSLETTER!
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lelopa
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Re: 6 Yogas

Post by lelopa » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:08 am

coming friday the 16th of June 2017 ???
I have no Tardis :shrug:
हूं हूं हूं
फट् फट् फट्

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: 6 Yogas

Post by kalden yungdrung » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:17 am

lelopa wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:08 am
coming friday the 16th of June 2017 ???
I have no Tardis :shrug:
Maybe next time ?
Mainpoint for me was here the video.
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Re: 6 Yogas

Post by lelopa » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:25 am

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:17 am
lelopa wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:08 am
coming friday the 16th of June 2017 ???
I have no Tardis :shrug:
Maybe next time ?
Mainpoint for me was here the video.
ah, ok... thanx,
this I could not read out of your post
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