Kalacakra and shambala

DGA
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Re: Kalacakra and shambala

Post by DGA » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:23 pm

You can read the commentary by Mipham that Malcolm alluded to in English translation if you’ve had the Kalachakra empowerment.

You’ll need an account at kalachakranet.

What a strange thread this is.

Harold Musetescu
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Re: Kalacakra and shambala

Post by Harold Musetescu » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:49 pm

DGA wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:23 pm
You can read the commentary by Mipham that Malcolm alluded to in English translation if you’ve had the Kalachakra empowerment.

You’ll need an account at kalachakranet.

What a strange thread this is.


Hello DGA

You are aware that the Kalachakra empowerment say the Dalai Lama gives to the general public is only the "Outer" empowerment.

There are higher closed Kalachakra empowerments that you must first qualify for prior to receiving them.

Anyone ask go and receive the "Outer" Kalachakra empowerment.

Beyond that you must get permission from a qualified Kalachakra Lama to receive the other secret Kalachakra empowerments.

Only then do you start to receive the higher tantric teachings of the Kalachakra.

Mipham's commentaries would not be of the higher secret tantric teachings of the Kalachakra.

:sage:

Jeff H
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Location: Vermont, USA

Re: Kalacakra and shambala

Post by Jeff H » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:22 pm

MatthewAngby wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:13 pm
Ok then. So are u suggesting I stop asking questions in dharmawheel and ask a wise man instead next time or..?
Back to you, Matthew, because I really like you. :smile:

Questions are good, but first take some time to learn the right questions to ask. If you drive every conversation, you won’t be gaining the bigger perspective. Slow down, step back. Start where you actually are, right now. Look for those teachings you can understand and apply, right now. Then grow from there. If you dip into random texts and try to make sense of the most obscure sentences because they confuse you, you’ll just get more confused. Bracket what seems most confusing and focus on that which is just slightly out of your reach at first.

Get some context. Alex Berzin is an excellent suggestion. Spend time reading his website and listening to his podcasts. He’s been at it for a long time and has some very good explanations to offer. You might also want to read more and write less on DW. There are so many different traditions and views out here, not to mention a wide range of expertise and the lack thereof, that it is not the best place for basic training.

Regarding this question about righteous warriors, my response is Shantideva. He is a model Bodhisattva warrior. The term means someone who gets up every day resolved and determined to crush their afflictive emotions. Ignorance, anger, and attachment are the only true enemies. Here’s what Shantideva says:
In chapter four, Shantideva wrote:32. O my enemy, afflictive passion,
Endless and beginningless companion!
No other enemy indeed
Is able to endure so long!

33. All other foes that I appease and wait upon
Will show me favors, give me every aid,
But should I serve my dark defiled emotions,
They will only harm me, draw me down to grief.

...

35. And if the jail guards of the prisons of saṃsāra,
The butchers and tormentors of infernal realms,
All lurk within me in the web of craving,
What joy can ever be my destiny?

36. I will not leave the fight until, before my eyes,
These enemies of mine are all destroyed.
For if, aroused to fury by the merest slight,
Incapable of sleep until the scores are settled,

37. Proud but wretched rivals, destined all to suffer when they die,
Will draw the battle lines and do their best to win,
And careless of the pain of cut and thrust,
Will stand their ground refusing to give way,

38. No need to say that I will not lose heart,
Regardless of the hardships of the fray.
From this day forth I’ll strive to crush
These foes whose very nature is to bring me pain.

39. The wounds inflicted by the enemy in futile wars
Are flaunted by the soldier as a prize.
So in the high endeavor, for so great a thing,
Why should I be dismayed by hurt or injury?

...

43. This shall be my all-consuming passion.
Filled with rancor I will wage my war!
Defilement of this kind will halt defilement
And for this reason it shall not be spurned.

44. Better if I perish in the fire,
Better that my head be severed from my body
Than ever I should serve or reverence
My mortal enemies, defiled emotions.
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

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liuzg150181
Posts: 245
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Re: Kalacakra and shambala

Post by liuzg150181 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:33 am

Jeff H wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:22 pm
MatthewAngby wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:13 pm
Ok then. So are u suggesting I stop asking questions in dharmawheel and ask a wise man instead next time or..?
Back to you, Matthew, because I really like you. :smile:

Questions are good, but first take some time to learn the right questions to ask. If you drive every conversation, you won’t be gaining the bigger perspective. Slow down, step back. Start where you actually are, right now. Look for those teachings you can understand and apply, right now. Then grow from there. If you dip into random texts and try to make sense of the most obscure sentences because they confuse you, you’ll just get more confused. Bracket what seems most confusing and focus on that which is just slightly out of your reach at first.

Get some context. Alex Berzin is an excellent suggestion. Spend time reading his website and listening to his podcasts. He’s been at it for a long time and has some very good explanations to offer. You might also want to read more and write less on DW. There are so many different traditions and views out here, not to mention a wide range of expertise and the lack thereof, that it is not the best place for basic training.

Regarding this question about righteous warriors, my response is Shantideva. He is a model Bodhisattva warrior. The term means someone who gets up every day resolved and determined to crush their afflictive emotions. Ignorance, anger, and attachment are the only true enemies. Here’s what Shantideva says:
In chapter four, Shantideva wrote:32. O my enemy, afflictive passion,
Endless and beginningless companion!
No other enemy indeed
Is able to endure so long!

33. All other foes that I appease and wait upon
Will show me favors, give me every aid,
But should I serve my dark defiled emotions,
They will only harm me, draw me down to grief.

...

35. And if the jail guards of the prisons of saṃsāra,
The butchers and tormentors of infernal realms,
All lurk within me in the web of craving,
What joy can ever be my destiny?

36. I will not leave the fight until, before my eyes,
These enemies of mine are all destroyed.
For if, aroused to fury by the merest slight,
Incapable of sleep until the scores are settled,

37. Proud but wretched rivals, destined all to suffer when they die,
Will draw the battle lines and do their best to win,
And careless of the pain of cut and thrust,
Will stand their ground refusing to give way,

38. No need to say that I will not lose heart,
Regardless of the hardships of the fray.
From this day forth I’ll strive to crush
These foes whose very nature is to bring me pain.

39. The wounds inflicted by the enemy in futile wars
Are flaunted by the soldier as a prize.
So in the high endeavor, for so great a thing,
Why should I be dismayed by hurt or injury?

...

43. This shall be my all-consuming passion.
Filled with rancor I will wage my war!
Defilement of this kind will halt defilement
And for this reason it shall not be spurned.

44. Better if I perish in the fire,
Better that my head be severed from my body
Than ever I should serve or reverence
My mortal enemies, defiled emotions.
Other suggestions would be to study lamrim(say,from the Gelug),and Singapore R.Y.O.(Rangjung Yeshe Oddiyana) provides an equivalent known as "Dharma Stream",go for it.

DGA
Former staff member
Posts: 9327
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Re: Kalacakra and shambala

Post by DGA » Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:46 am

methar wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:49 pm
DGA wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:23 pm
You can read the commentary by Mipham that Malcolm alluded to in English translation if you’ve had the Kalachakra empowerment.

You’ll need an account at kalachakranet.

What a strange thread this is.


Hello DGA

You are aware that the Kalachakra empowerment say the Dalai Lama gives to the general public is only the "Outer" empowerment.

There are higher closed Kalachakra empowerments that you must first qualify for prior to receiving them.

Anyone ask go and receive the "Outer" Kalachakra empowerment.

Beyond that you must get permission from a qualified Kalachakra Lama to receive the other secret Kalachakra empowerments.

Only then do you start to receive the higher tantric teachings of the Kalachakra.

Mipham's commentaries would not be of the higher secret tantric teachings of the Kalachakra.

:sage:
You seem to regard Mipham as a beginner.

MatthewAngby
Posts: 296
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:51 am

Re: Kalacakra and shambala

Post by MatthewAngby » Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:46 am

Jeff H wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:22 pm
MatthewAngby wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:13 pm
Ok then. So are u suggesting I stop asking questions in dharmawheel and ask a wise man instead next time or..?
Back to you, Matthew, because I really like you. :smile:

Questions are good, but first take some time to learn the right questions to ask. If you drive every conversation, you won’t be gaining the bigger perspective. Slow down, step back. Start where you actually are, right now. Look for those teachings you can understand and apply, right now. Then grow from there. If you dip into random texts and try to make sense of the most obscure sentences because they confuse you, you’ll just get more confused. Bracket what seems most confusing and focus on that which is just slightly out of your reach at first.

Get some context. Alex Berzin is an excellent suggestion. Spend time reading his website and listening to his podcasts. He’s been at it for a long time and has some very good explanations to offer. You might also want to read more and write less on DW. There are so many different traditions and views out here, not to mention a wide range of expertise and the lack thereof, that it is not the best place for basic training.

Regarding this question about righteous warriors, my response is Shantideva. He is a model Bodhisattva warrior. The term means someone who gets up every day resolved and determined to crush their afflictive emotions. Ignorance, anger, and attachment are the only true enemies. Here’s what Shantideva says:
In chapter four, Shantideva wrote:32. O my enemy, afflictive passion,
Endless and beginningless companion!
No other enemy indeed
Is able to endure so long!

33. All other foes that I appease and wait upon
Will show me favors, give me every aid,
But should I serve my dark defiled emotions,
They will only harm me, draw me down to grief.

...

35. And if the jail guards of the prisons of saṃsāra,
The butchers and tormentors of infernal realms,
All lurk within me in the web of craving,
What joy can ever be my destiny?

36. I will not leave the fight until, before my eyes,
These enemies of mine are all destroyed.
For if, aroused to fury by the merest slight,
Incapable of sleep until the scores are settled,

37. Proud but wretched rivals, destined all to suffer when they die,
Will draw the battle lines and do their best to win,
And careless of the pain of cut and thrust,
Will stand their ground refusing to give way,

38. No need to say that I will not lose heart,
Regardless of the hardships of the fray.
From this day forth I’ll strive to crush
These foes whose very nature is to bring me pain.

39. The wounds inflicted by the enemy in futile wars
Are flaunted by the soldier as a prize.
So in the high endeavor, for so great a thing,
Why should I be dismayed by hurt or injury?

...

43. This shall be my all-consuming passion.
Filled with rancor I will wage my war!
Defilement of this kind will halt defilement
And for this reason it shall not be spurned.

44. Better if I perish in the fire,
Better that my head be severed from my body
Than ever I should serve or reverence
My mortal enemies, defiled emotions.
Mm I do like this quote. Perhaps I get a better understanding of “warrior” then.
The force is my ally...and a powerful ally it is - Yoda

Simon E.
Posts: 5553
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Kalacakra and shambala

Post by Simon E. » Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:12 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:06 pm
methar wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:50 pm

I won't ever tell anyone who my Tantric Lama is or what my tantric practice is.
Harold, your identity as someone who practices the Gyalpo is well known. In fact, your nym here is a reference to one of the Gyalpo's subordinate entities.
Ah! Light dawns....
Taking advantage of a temporary situation. Back for a short time only folks.

PeterC
Posts: 517
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:38 pm

Re: Kalacakra and shambala

Post by PeterC » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:05 am

Harold Musetescu wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:49 pm

Mipham's commentaries would not be of the higher secret tantric teachings of the Kalachakra.

:sage:

You are either (a) claiming that Mipham's commentary was deliberately deficient, or (b) claiming that you understand the practice of Kalachakra better than Mipham.

Both of these would be absolutely extraordinary claims

Please either give us a reason to take you seriously, or stop wasting everyone's time

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Malcolm
Posts: 28238
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Kalacakra and shambala

Post by Malcolm » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:37 pm

Harold Musetescu wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:49 pm
DGA wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:23 pm
You can read the commentary by Mipham that Malcolm alluded to in English translation if you’ve had the Kalachakra empowerment.

You’ll need an account at kalachakranet.

What a strange thread this is.


Hello DGA

You are aware that the Kalachakra empowerment say the Dalai Lama gives to the general public is only the "Outer" empowerment.
Harold, in fact, in Washington, DC, HHDL gave the whole kit and kaboodle.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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liuzg150181
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:41 am

Re: Kalacakra and shambala

Post by liuzg150181 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:55 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:37 pm
Harold Musetescu wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:49 pm
DGA wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:23 pm
You can read the commentary by Mipham that Malcolm alluded to in English translation if you’ve had the Kalachakra empowerment.

You’ll need an account at kalachakranet.

What a strange thread this is.


Hello DGA

You are aware that the Kalachakra empowerment say the Dalai Lama gives to the general public is only the "Outer" empowerment.
Harold, in fact, in Washington, DC, HHDL gave the whole kit and kaboodle.
Interestingly, it seems Jonangpa might be more stringnent with regards to kalachakra empowerment, as i had met a Jonang rinpoche who would give only the seven empowerments of growing child and not four empowerments and above, until the students have accumulated certain amount of practice

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Grigoris
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Re: Kalacakra and shambala

Post by Grigoris » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:32 pm

Just so you all know: Harold has been escorted from the building by DW security, so do not waste your time trying to engage him.

No meta-discussion about the issue please :smile:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

WeiHan
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Re: Kalacakra and shambala

Post by WeiHan » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:21 am

I'll say there is no definite answer. Even words in scriptures can be read literally or it can have inner meaning. It is best that we keep an open mind with our view evolving as we discover new knowledge. Be a bit skeptical with all that we already know and experienced, they may all well need to be advised as we grow. Maybe all wisdom scriptures are intended to be written in this manner so that we are forced into this open ended outlook.

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