Shar Khentrul Rinpoché Jamphel Lodrö

Crazywisdom
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Shar Khentrul Rinpoché Jamphel Lodrö

Post by Crazywisdom » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:39 am

Does anyone know if this guy checks out? It seems all the info about him comes from him at Rimebuddhism.com. The story about him is a little to puffed up. When I asked his organization about him “how do I know he got a special degree from HHDL, and how do I know he had a 3yr retreat? How do I check out his background?”

I was told...

“If you would like to research in detail Rinpoché’s qualifications as a Vajra Master, you would need to speak Tibetan, travel to Dzamthang in Tibet and speak with His Holiness Jigmé Dorjé, the current head of the Jonang order and abbot of Dzamthang Tsangwa Monastery. You could also speak with Lama Ngawang who was also a student of Lama Lobsang Trinlé (Rinpoché’s Root Lama), and is the current Vajra Master of Tashi Chothang Monastery. Or you could speak with Tulku Jamyang Jinpa who is the current abbot of Longkya Monastery. Rinpoché has very few contacts with the Tibetan community in exile and is mostly connected to the lamas in Tibet. So that is where you will find people who know of Rinpoché’s past.

“A much easier way to remove doubts is to spend time with Rinpoché and listen to what he teaches. If you find benefit from what he says, then your mind will no longer need “proof” of anything. As you come to see his qualities, you can judge for yourself if you feel he is qualified. This is why I recommend attending teachings first, before you jump into a teacher/disciple relationship that has no grounding. Better to do your homework now and develop a long lasting relationship, than to jump into a vajra relationship based on feeling and then end up breaking your samaya later when that feeling changes. “

So this answer is a little weird for me. But if anyone else knows this guy’s history that might help.

My red flag came from watching his videos where he says to the effect, only Jonang has the full Kalachakra teachings, others only have pieces. And the implication is he’s the only Jonang around so if you want real Kalachakra you have to go through him. Maybe it’s true. But I had a lama in the past who pumped up lineage too much. So I’m not thrilled here. At least he had a certificate from the lineage.

So just now his office emailed me “In addition to that, I recommend you read Rinpoché's teachings on working with a spiritual master in Book Two of Unveiling Your Sacred Truth, and his teachings on working with a Vajra Master in Book Three.”

Oh buy his book if you want to know more. Honestly, this is weird for me. It’s cult like.

Here’s something. Kalachakra is very open. All the instructions are in the tantra. It says explicitly “you don’t have to rely on a lineage of pith nstructions to get the meaning here.” Whereas this teacher is saying he will give out secret booklets to folks who want the secret pith instructions.

Starting to think Suchandra is a better ask for this initiation.
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

Crazywisdom
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Re: Shar Khentrul Rinpoché Jamphel Lodrö

Post by Crazywisdom » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:03 am

My last communication was, “so he doesn’t have a certificate?” Waiting for answer.
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

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Malcolm
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Re: Shar Khentrul Rinpoché Jamphel Lodrö

Post by Malcolm » Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:08 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:39 am
My red flag came from watching his videos where he says to the effect, only Jonang has the full Kalachakra teachings, others only have pieces.
This is true. As a lineage, only they have preserved the entire creation and completion stage teachings as an integral whole. The Gelugpas preserve Kalacakra more as a state ritual. If one is seriously interested in Kalacakra, one must study the Jonang lineage of Kalacakra. Of course, that exists outside Jonang, HH Chogye Trichen, the late head of the Tsarpa subschool of Sakya, was expert in this lineage, as was Kalu Rinpoche. The Jonang lineage of Kalacakra spread from Jonang to Nyingma in the 18th century, then to Kagyu and then from Kongtrul, into all schools. However, outside of Jonang, there is little practice of the complete system. So your best bet to study this system in its entirety is to find a Jonang master.

The person to ask about this Lama's qualifications is Michael Sheehy.

M
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Malcolm
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Re: Shar Khentrul Rinpoché Jamphel Lodrö

Post by Malcolm » Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:11 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:08 pm
Crazywisdom wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:39 am
My red flag came from watching his videos where he says to the effect, only Jonang has the full Kalachakra teachings, others only have pieces.
This is true. As a lineage, only they have preserved the entire creation and completion stage teachings as an integral whole. The Gelugpas preserve Kalacakra more as a state ritual. If one is seriously interested in Kalacakra, one must study the Jonang lineage of Kalacakra. Of course, that exists outside Jonang, HH Chogye Trichen, the late head of the Tsarpa subschool of Sakya, was expert in this lineage, as was Kalu Rinpoche. The Jonang lineage of Kalacakra spread from Jonang to Nyingma in the 18th century, then to Kagyu and then from Kongtrul, into all schools. However, outside of Jonang, there is little practice of the complete system. So your best bet to study this system in its entirety is to find a Jonang master.

The person to ask about this Lama's qualifications is Michael Sheehy. You can contact him here: http://michaelrsheehy.com/contact/

M
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Crazywisdom
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Re: Shar Khentrul Rinpoché Jamphel Lodrö

Post by Crazywisdom » Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:29 pm

Cool deal. Thanks. Are you familiar with this lama?
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

Motova
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Re: Shar Khentrul Rinpoché Jamphel Lodrö

Post by Motova » Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:32 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:29 pm
Cool deal. Thanks. Are you familiar with this lama?
Please keep us updated. :twothumbsup:
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

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Malcolm
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Re: Shar Khentrul Rinpoché Jamphel Lodrö

Post by Malcolm » Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:41 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:29 pm
Cool deal. Thanks. Are you familiar with this lama?
Nope, contact Michael.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Crazywisdom
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Re: Shar Khentrul Rinpoché Jamphel Lodrö

Post by Crazywisdom » Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:29 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:41 pm
Crazywisdom wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:29 pm
Cool deal. Thanks. Are you familiar with this lama?
Nope, contact Michael.
Yes. I did. Thanks for the referral.
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

Crazywisdom
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Re: Shar Khentrul Rinpoché Jamphel Lodrö

Post by Crazywisdom » Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:05 pm

Geluk comments on the wisdom chapter are off base it seems. Mipham does better.
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

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conebeckham
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Re: Shar Khentrul Rinpoché Jamphel Lodrö

Post by conebeckham » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:18 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:08 pm
Crazywisdom wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:39 am
My red flag came from watching his videos where he says to the effect, only Jonang has the full Kalachakra teachings, others only have pieces.
This is true. As a lineage, only they have preserved the entire creation and completion stage teachings as an integral whole. The Gelugpas preserve Kalacakra more as a state ritual. If one is seriously interested in Kalacakra, one must study the Jonang lineage of Kalacakra. Of course, that exists outside Jonang, HH Chogye Trichen, the late head of the Tsarpa subschool of Sakya, was expert in this lineage, as was Kalu Rinpoche. The Jonang lineage of Kalacakra spread from Jonang to Nyingma in the 18th century, then to Kagyu and then from Kongtrul, into all schools. However, outside of Jonang, there is little practice of the complete system. So your best bet to study this system in its entirety is to find a Jonang master.

The person to ask about this Lama's qualifications is Michael Sheehy.

M
I'll just add that Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche was intensely interested in Kalacakra, and requested the Jonang transmissions, including trulkhor, and these were bestowed on students at his monastery at Mirik some time prior to his passing. He also built a Kalacakra stupa, which is where his remains are interred. His disciple and dharma brother Bokar Khenpo Lodro Donyo Rinpoche has written a comprehensive book (in Tibetan) which I haven't read, but Mirik Monastery has instituted a "Kalacakra retreat"--they have a dedicated retreat center for the complete system, as well as centers for the Kamtsang and Shangpa Drupdras. The DuKhor Drupdra is fairly recent, though.
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དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

Crazywisdom
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Re: Shar Khentrul Rinpoché Jamphel Lodrö

Post by Crazywisdom » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:44 pm

conebeckham wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:18 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:08 pm
Crazywisdom wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:39 am
My red flag came from watching his videos where he says to the effect, only Jonang has the full Kalachakra teachings, others only have pieces.
This is true. As a lineage, only they have preserved the entire creation and completion stage teachings as an integral whole. The Gelugpas preserve Kalacakra more as a state ritual. If one is seriously interested in Kalacakra, one must study the Jonang lineage of Kalacakra. Of course, that exists outside Jonang, HH Chogye Trichen, the late head of the Tsarpa subschool of Sakya, was expert in this lineage, as was Kalu Rinpoche. The Jonang lineage of Kalacakra spread from Jonang to Nyingma in the 18th century, then to Kagyu and then from Kongtrul, into all schools. However, outside of Jonang, there is little practice of the complete system. So your best bet to study this system in its entirety is to find a Jonang master.

The person to ask about this Lama's qualifications is Michael Sheehy.

M
It’s great

I'll just add that Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche was intensely interested in Kalacakra, and requested the Jonang transmissions, including trulkhor, and these were bestowed on students at his monastery at Mirik some time prior to his passing. He also built a Kalacakra stupa, which is where his remains are interred. His disciple and dharma brother Bokar Khenpo Lodro Donyo Rinpoche has written a comprehensive book (in Tibetan) which I haven't read, but Mirik Monastery has instituted a "Kalacakra retreat"--they have a dedicated retreat center for the complete system, as well as centers for the Kamtsang and Shangpa Drupdras. The DuKhor Drupdra is fairly recent, though.

11863419_663552130448950_2803133401732763894_n.jpg
It’s great
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

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Re: Shar Khentrul Rinpoché Jamphel Lodrö

Post by Crazywisdom » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:50 pm

If this guy is the real deal I’ll be at the LA initiation and attend the higher initiations a week later. Along w the completion stage instructions. Until then I will aspire and pray to Shambala Kong’s for permission to take initiation from them and read the Sadhana.
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

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Sennin
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Re: Shar Khentrul Rinpoché Jamphel Lodrö

Post by Sennin » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:05 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:50 pm
If this guy is the real deal I’ll be at the LA initiation and attend the higher initiations a week later. Along w the completion stage instructions. Until then I will aspire and pray to Shambala Kong’s for permission to take initiation from them and read the Sadhana.
Auspicious!

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Karma Dorje
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Re: Shar Khentrul Rinpoché Jamphel Lodrö

Post by Karma Dorje » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:25 pm

I can't speak to his credentials from other traditions, but I have received teachings and empowerment from him and have the books in question. He is very humble and low key and his teachings were well spoken. The books are quite comprehensive and though I haven't read them all, what I have read is quite traditional in approach.

FWIW, I have faith in him.
"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava

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Re: Shar Khentrul Rinpoché Jamphel Lodrö

Post by Crazywisdom » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:05 am

Karma Dorje wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:25 pm
I can't speak to his credentials from other traditions, but I have received teachings and empowerment from him and have the books in question. He is very humble and low key and his teachings were well spoken. The books are quite comprehensive and though I haven't read them all, what I have read is quite traditional in approach.

FWIW, I have faith in him.
That’s good to know. Thank you.
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

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Sennin
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Re: Shar Khentrul Rinpoché Jamphel Lodrö

Post by Sennin » Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:59 pm

There's a Jonang temple in Atlanta, but they're mostly always closed. The last time they had these advanced initiations was in 2011.

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tobes
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Re: Shar Khentrul Rinpoché Jamphel Lodrö

Post by tobes » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:17 pm

I live near his main centre in Victoria, Australia. At one point I made some inquiries about Jonang guru yoga, and then shortly after my partner went along to a refuge ceremony to suss out the centre/teacher. She had mainly positive things to say, but then she was discussing this with one of her Tibetan friends and he was, to be really frank about it, scathing about the teacher in question.

He said a few things which need to be properly investigated:

1. His background is actually Nyingma not Jonang. The bio/narrative is seemingly fictional, at least to some degree.
2. The Tibetan community wanted to 'pull his robes off' during a visit by HHDL, presumably because of the disjuncture between his appearance and action.

The Tibetan friend is very reliable and trustworthy, and is currently studying for a Geshe degree in Dharmasala. Nonetheless, whether all of this is fact or mere gossip is hard to establish. So make of this what you will. At very least, it demands a little more investigation.

I personally would have been very keen to receive some Jonang transmissions, but my own decision was to avoid, avoid, avoid.

:anjali:

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Re: Shar Khentrul Rinpoché Jamphel Lodrö

Post by Crazywisdom » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:33 pm

This is not the first I’ve heard.
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

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tobes
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Re: Shar Khentrul Rinpoché Jamphel Lodrö

Post by tobes » Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:53 am

Reading the OP more carefully definitely raises some red flags.

If one wants to know what has really corrupted the Vajrayana in the west - often discussed on this forum - it's this kind of stuff.

I don't take kindly to the great legacy of Kongtrol, Khyentse Wangpo etc, being deployed to serve a deceptive means.

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Re: Shar Khentrul Rinpoché Jamphel Lodrö

Post by Crazywisdom » Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:33 pm

tobes wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:53 am
Reading the OP more carefully definitely raises some red flags.

If one wants to know what has really corrupted the Vajrayana in the west - often discussed on this forum - it's this kind of stuff.

I don't take kindly to the great legacy of Kongtrol, Khyentse Wangpo etc, being deployed to serve a deceptive means.
What are you talking about? No body is impugning a legacy. I just want to know if this guy is qualified. I’m not decided. But there is controversy surrounding the man. My question is: does that matter? I know what the KCT says about monks being best gurus, and gurus should be given consorts, even sacred prostitutes. I also k ow this lama has claimed he received a special degree from HHDL as master of all lineages (from his own website claims). So I also know HHDL won’t like knowing he’s using his students as mudras. What’s true and false, right and wrong here? Honestly, I would like some clarity on the subject. I’d also like to know besides possibly trolling if you have any connection with the subject matter and can shed some light on it?
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

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