What is the origin of this mantra?

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Fortyeightvows
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What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Fortyeightvows » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:13 am

What is the origin of the mantra Hocus Pocus ?

Sādhaka
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Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Sādhaka » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:46 am

Seventh paragraph:

http://www.grandlodgescotland.com/mason ... importance

I doubt that they could be considered as actual Mantras in the true sense, but "Abracadabra", "Open Sesame", and "Hocus Pocus" are all said to have 'esoteric' roots. Then they became associated with legerdemain.

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Coëmgenu
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Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Coëmgenu » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:21 pm

When they stopped being able to understand Latin in Europe, people would hear "Hoc est corpus meus" (This is my body). This happens right before communion, so it is a significant set of words.

Some started to believe that "Hoc est corpus meus" was literally a spell that summoned down God as that he could dwell in the bread. They decided to try to use these "magic words" themselves. Hocus Pocus.

That is only one etymology, mind you, but it is a very traditional one. Other people believe there are other origins to the words.

Alternatively some people think that it is a Czech colloquialism. Go figure.
並畢竟空。並如來藏。並實相。非三 而三三而不三。非合非散而合而散。非非合非非散。不可一異而一異。
All three truths are ultimately empty, all are tathāgatagarbha, all are true aspect. Not three, they are three; three, they are not three. Neither combined nor separated, neither uncombined nor unseparated. Neither same nor different, yet in a sense same, and in a sense different.

夫三諦者。 天然之性徳也。 中諦者。 統一切法。 眞諦者。 泯一切法。 俗諦者。 立一切法。
The three truths. Heaven-sent natural characteristics. The middle truth unifies all dharmas. The ultimate truth demolishes all dharmas. The conventional truth establishes all dharmas.

摩訶止観始終心要Móhēzhǐguān, Shǐzhōngxīnyào.

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Malcolm
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Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Malcolm » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:47 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:21 pm
When they stopped being able to understand Latin in Europe, people would hear "Hoc est corpus meus" (This is my body). This happens right before communion, so it is a significant set of words.

Some started to believe that "Hoc est corpus meus" was literally a spell that summoned down God as that he could dwell in the bread. They decided to try to use these "magic words" themselves. Hocus Pocus.

That is only one etymology, mind you, but it is a very traditional one. Other people believe there are other origins to the words.

Alternatively some people think that it is a Czech colloquialism. Go figure.
Hocus Pocus is derogatory. So, it likely was an English phrase from the Reformation meant to belittle Catholics and High Episcopalians.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/hocus-pocus
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Virgo
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Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Virgo » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:34 pm

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:13 am
What is the origin of the mantra Hocus Pocus ?
The knowledge of this is said to have been lost before the age of Dragons, young mage.

Kevin

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Virgo
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Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Virgo » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:42 am

I can be Giaus and you can be Merlin.

Speak the dragon language!! :thumbsup:

Kevin

Fortyeightvows
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Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Fortyeightvows » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:27 am

Thanks alot for that link! Very interesting!
Coëmgenu wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:21 pm
When they stopped being able to understand Latin in Europe, people would hear "Hoc est corpus meus" (This is my body). This happens right before communion, so it is a significant set of words.
:good:
Virgo wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:34 pm
Kevin
236.jpg
236.jpg (49 KiB) Viewed 300 times


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Coëmgenu
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Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Coëmgenu » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:09 pm

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:27 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:21 pm
When they stopped being able to understand Latin in Europe, people would hear "Hoc est corpus meus" (This is my body). This happens right before communion, so it is a significant set of words.
:good:
As good a posting as it may have seemed, I think Malcolm's point was more likely.

I was presuming a much larger area of diffusion for attestations of 'hocus pocus' as a magic term. I was thinking it would be attested to in some grimoires or something. I was also expecting the term to be considerably older than ~1700ish.
並畢竟空。並如來藏。並實相。非三 而三三而不三。非合非散而合而散。非非合非非散。不可一異而一異。
All three truths are ultimately empty, all are tathāgatagarbha, all are true aspect. Not three, they are three; three, they are not three. Neither combined nor separated, neither uncombined nor unseparated. Neither same nor different, yet in a sense same, and in a sense different.

夫三諦者。 天然之性徳也。 中諦者。 統一切法。 眞諦者。 泯一切法。 俗諦者。 立一切法。
The three truths. Heaven-sent natural characteristics. The middle truth unifies all dharmas. The ultimate truth demolishes all dharmas. The conventional truth establishes all dharmas.

摩訶止観始終心要Móhēzhǐguān, Shǐzhōngxīnyào.

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liuzg150181
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Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by liuzg150181 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:27 am

Virgo wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:42 am
I can be Giaus and you can be Merlin.

Speak the dragon language!! :thumbsup:

Kevin
fus ro dah?

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