Best english translation of the bardo thodol?

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Fortyeightvows
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Best english translation of the bardo thodol?

Post by Fortyeightvows »

I'm interested in hearing the opinions of the members here on which english translation of the bardo thodol is the best and why.
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Grigoris
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Re: Best english translation of the bardo thodol?

Post by Grigoris »

Gyurme Dorje's translation "The Tibetan Book of the Dead", with a foreword and introduction by HHDL, published by Penguin. It is the most complete version.
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Simon E.
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Re: Best english translation of the bardo thodol?

Post by Simon E. »

I would recommend Francesca Feemantle and Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche's translation..published by Shambala.
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Grigoris
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Re: Best english translation of the bardo thodol?

Post by Grigoris »

Simon E. wrote:I would recommend Francesca Feemantle and Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche's translation..published by Shambala.
It's a decent version but it's missing lot's of sections. Actually, I am unsure which is the better (philological) translation, as I cannot read Tibetan. I'm going on content.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Simon E.
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Re: Best english translation of the bardo thodol?

Post by Simon E. »

It might be Greg that no one single translation covers it all in terms of the central tenets.
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Re: Best english translation of the bardo thodol?

Post by Pero »

Sherab Dorje wrote:Gyurme Dorje's translation "The Tibetan Book of the Dead", with a foreword and introduction by HHDL, published by Penguin. It is the most complete version.
I thought it was the complete version?
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Paul
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Re: Best english translation of the bardo thodol?

Post by Paul »

Pero wrote:
Sherab Dorje wrote:Gyurme Dorje's translation "The Tibetan Book of the Dead", with a foreword and introduction by HHDL, published by Penguin. It is the most complete version.
I thought it was the complete version?
That's my understanding too.
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Re: Best english translation of the bardo thodol?

Post by Punya »

Sherab Dorje wrote:Gyurme Dorje's translation "The Tibetan Book of the Dead", with a foreword and introduction by HHDL, published by Penguin. It is the most complete version.
One of my teachers, who is a published translater himself, recommended this version.
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rleebaker
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Re: Best english translation of the bardo thodol?

Post by rleebaker »

to those of you asking about Gyurme Dorje's translation "The Tibetan Book of the Dead", Yes, it is the most complete translation, to date. There is more to translate and is, as of yet, unavailable in English. WY Evans Wantz version was 3 chapters. Many drew the wrong conclusion that it was THE entire book. It was at the time IF one understands "available in English" as the pretext. Just as with many ancient texts we also need to understand often Chapters and Chapter breaks were added by the translator. Often these breaks (to allow many in the West to better understand the text) are "best guesses" of the translators and may have not been the intent of the original author. In the original text many of today's Chapter breaks did not occur. Why they were added you'd need to ask the translators. My thought it to maintain the flow of the perceived short-attention spanned reader in the West. Who knows? We also need to remember our own personal understanding of the definition of ANY given word, may or may not be the understanding of the definition of the given translator. And IF the translator translated it correctly is also often in question as evidenced in the numerous different word terms used by a variety of translators. There is no translation that is 100% accurate. Many also fall into error building a belief system around their own error filled definition of a given word. Ancient saying, "Most, (I add, if not all) or what passes for religion is man projecting his own image onto his "god" (read previous sentence to understand this misunderstood three letter word) and worshiping himself (the image he has of his own error filled belief system).
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Re: Best english translation of the bardo thodol?

Post by Malcolm »

rleebaker wrote: Just as with many ancient texts we also need to understand often Chapters and Chapter breaks were added by the translator.
In this case the chapter breaks and chapters are in the original text as written down by Karma Lingpa.
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WuMing
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Re: Best english translation of the bardo thodol?

Post by WuMing »

What about the new translation done by Elio Guarisco The Tibetan Book of the Dead: Awakening Upon Dying?

Has anybody read it? Any thoughts about it?
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Re: Best english translation of the bardo thodol?

Post by odysseus »

W Y Evans Wentz. The original Enligsh translation, nothing beats that one.
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Re: Best english translation of the bardo thodol?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

WuMing wrote:What about the new translation done by Elio Guarisco The Tibetan Book of the Dead: Awakening Upon Dying?

Has anybody read it? Any thoughts about it?

I really loved it personally. I have no idea about the accuracy of translation or anything, but I thought this edition was wonderful...mainly for the act that it includes a sizeable chunk of commentary and explanatory material from ChNN, and is presented in a Dzogchen context. My only previous experience was with the Trungpa/Fremantle version.
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Re: Best english translation of the bardo thodol?

Post by Malcolm »

odysseus wrote:W Y Evans Wentz. The original Enligsh translation, nothing beats that one.
surely you are kidding,
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Re: Best english translation of the bardo thodol?

Post by Malcolm »

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
WuMing wrote:What about the new translation done by Elio Guarisco The Tibetan Book of the Dead: Awakening Upon Dying?

Has anybody read it? Any thoughts about it?

I really loved it personally. I have no idea about the accuracy of translation or anything, but I thought this edition was wonderful...mainly for the act that it includes a sizeable chunk of commentary and explanatory material from ChNN, and is presented in a Dzogchen context. My only previous experience was with the Trungpa/Fremantle version.

The Bardo Thos grol is Dzogchen through and through
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Re: Best english translation of the bardo thodol?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Malcolm wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
WuMing wrote:What about the new translation done by Elio Guarisco The Tibetan Book of the Dead: Awakening Upon Dying?

Has anybody read it? Any thoughts about it?

I really loved it personally. I have no idea about the accuracy of translation or anything, but I thought this edition was wonderful...mainly for the act that it includes a sizeable chunk of commentary and explanatory material from ChNN, and is presented in a Dzogchen context. My only previous experience was with the Trungpa/Fremantle version.

The Bardo Thos grol is Dzogchen through and through
I know this now.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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HandsomeMonkeyking
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Re: Best english translation of the bardo thodol?

Post by HandsomeMonkeyking »

odysseus wrote:W Y Evans Wentz. The original Enligsh translation, nothing beats that one.
It might be interesting to read the foreword of 'Self-Liberation Through Seeing with Naked Awareness' by ChNN:

https://books.google.at/books?id=dy0tDQ ... &q&f=false

It clearly sais that this is not the case.
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Re: Best english translation of the bardo thodol?

Post by odysseus »

Malcolm wrote:
odysseus wrote:W Y Evans Wentz. The original Enligsh translation, nothing beats that one.
surely you are kidding,
No, actually this is my first reading! It has a charming attitude of old English understanding. I don't even know if there is anything better.
Malcolm
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Re: Best english translation of the bardo thodol?

Post by Malcolm »

odysseus wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
odysseus wrote:W Y Evans Wentz. The original Enligsh translation, nothing beats that one.
surely you are kidding,
No, actually this is my first reading! It has a charming attitude of old English understanding. I don't even know if there is anything better.
It has the charming attitude of being completely wrong in so many ways.
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Re: Best english translation of the bardo thodol?

Post by climb-up »

HandsomeMonkeyking wrote:
odysseus wrote:W Y Evans Wentz. The original Enligsh translation, nothing beats that one.
It might be interesting to read the foreword of 'Self-Liberation Through Seeing with Naked Awareness' by ChNN:

https://books.google.at/books?id=dy0tDQ ... &q&f=false

It clearly sais that this is not the case.
Additionally, I believe it's in that book, John Reynolds has an afterwards that breaks down some of Evans-Wentz's serious and varied misunderstandings of the book and the teaching and some of the history and perspective of Evans-Wentz.
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