What is the origin of this mantra?

Looking for translations, or for help with translations and transliterations? This is the place.
Post Reply
Fortyeightvows
Posts: 2038
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:37 am

What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Fortyeightvows » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:13 am

What is the origin of the mantra Hocus Pocus ?

Sādhaka
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:39 pm

Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Sādhaka » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:46 am

Seventh paragraph:

http://www.grandlodgescotland.com/mason ... importance

I doubt that they could be considered as actual Mantras in the true sense, but "Abracadabra", "Open Sesame", and "Hocus Pocus" are all said to have 'esoteric' roots. Then they became associated with legerdemain.
“...we should try to acquire clairvoyance. Without it, we are like a baby bird whose wings are undeveloped and has not yet grown feathers and remains stuck in its nest, unable to fly. Without clairvoyance, we cannot work for other sentient beings.” — Khunu Lama
“Just as a bird can not fly without both wings,
The welfare of others cannot be accomplished without the higher faculties of perception,
So diligently strive for your own wellbeing, whilst mentally considering the welfare of others.” — Longchenpa

User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 1814
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm
Location: Whitby, Ontario

Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Coëmgenu » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:21 pm

When they stopped being able to understand Latin in Europe, people would hear "Hoc est corpus meus" (This is my body). This happens right before communion, so it is a significant set of words.

Some started to believe that "Hoc est corpus meus" was literally a spell that summoned down God as that he could dwell in the bread. They decided to try to use these "magic words" themselves. Hocus Pocus.

That is only one etymology, mind you, but it is a very traditional one. Other people believe there are other origins to the words.

Alternatively some people think that it is a Czech colloquialism. Go figure.
如無為、如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28724
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Malcolm » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:47 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:21 pm
When they stopped being able to understand Latin in Europe, people would hear "Hoc est corpus meus" (This is my body). This happens right before communion, so it is a significant set of words.

Some started to believe that "Hoc est corpus meus" was literally a spell that summoned down God as that he could dwell in the bread. They decided to try to use these "magic words" themselves. Hocus Pocus.

That is only one etymology, mind you, but it is a very traditional one. Other people believe there are other origins to the words.

Alternatively some people think that it is a Czech colloquialism. Go figure.
Hocus Pocus is derogatory. So, it likely was an English phrase from the Reformation meant to belittle Catholics and High Episcopalians.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/hocus-pocus
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

User avatar
Virgo
Global Moderator
Posts: 3502
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Uni-verse

Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Virgo » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:34 pm

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:13 am
What is the origin of the mantra Hocus Pocus ?
The knowledge of this is said to have been lost before the age of Dragons, young mage.

Kevin

User avatar
Virgo
Global Moderator
Posts: 3502
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Uni-verse

Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Virgo » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:42 am

I can be Giaus and you can be Merlin.

Speak the dragon language!! :thumbsup:

Kevin

Fortyeightvows
Posts: 2038
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:37 am

Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Fortyeightvows » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:27 am

Thanks alot for that link! Very interesting!
Coëmgenu wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:21 pm
When they stopped being able to understand Latin in Europe, people would hear "Hoc est corpus meus" (This is my body). This happens right before communion, so it is a significant set of words.
:good:
Virgo wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:34 pm
Kevin
236.jpg
236.jpg (49 KiB) Viewed 863 times

User avatar
Virgo
Global Moderator
Posts: 3502
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Uni-verse

Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Virgo » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:02 am

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:27 am

Image
:applause:
Kevin

User avatar
Coëmgenu
Posts: 1814
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:35 pm
Location: Whitby, Ontario

Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Coëmgenu » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:09 pm

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:27 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:21 pm
When they stopped being able to understand Latin in Europe, people would hear "Hoc est corpus meus" (This is my body). This happens right before communion, so it is a significant set of words.
:good:
As good a posting as it may have seemed, I think Malcolm's point was more likely.

I was presuming a much larger area of diffusion for attestations of 'hocus pocus' as a magic term. I was thinking it would be attested to in some grimoires or something. I was also expecting the term to be considerably older than ~1700ish.
如無為、如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

User avatar
liuzg150181
Posts: 247
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:41 am

Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by liuzg150181 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:27 am

Virgo wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:42 am
I can be Giaus and you can be Merlin.

Speak the dragon language!! :thumbsup:

Kevin
fus ro dah?

Post Reply

Return to “Language”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Grigoris, Tiago Simões and 8 guests