What is the origin of this mantra?

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Fortyeightvows
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What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Fortyeightvows » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:13 am

What is the origin of the mantra Hocus Pocus ?

Sādhaka
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Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Sādhaka » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:46 am

Seventh paragraph:

http://www.grandlodgescotland.com/mason ... importance

I doubt that they could be considered as actual Mantras in the true sense, but "Abracadabra", "Open Sesame", and "Hocus Pocus" are all said to have 'esoteric' roots. Then they became associated with legerdemain.

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Coëmgenu
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Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Coëmgenu » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:21 pm

When they stopped being able to understand Latin in Europe, people would hear "Hoc est corpus meus" (This is my body). This happens right before communion, so it is a significant set of words.

Some started to believe that "Hoc est corpus meus" was literally a spell that summoned down God as that he could dwell in the bread. They decided to try to use these "magic words" themselves. Hocus Pocus.

That is only one etymology, mind you, but it is a very traditional one. Other people believe there are other origins to the words.

Alternatively some people think that it is a Czech colloquialism. Go figure.
子念昔貧,志意下劣,今於父所,大獲珍寶,并及舍宅、一切財物。甚大歡喜,得未曾有。
The son thought of past poverty, outlook humble, now having from father a treasure harvest, also father's house, all his wealth. Great joy - to have what was never before had.

Τῆς πατρῴας, δόξης σου, ἀποσκιρτήσας ἀφρόνως, ἐν κακοῖς ἐσκόρπισα, ὅν μοι παρέδωκας πλοῦτον· ὅθεν σοι τὴν τοῦ Ἀσώτου, φωνὴν κραυγάζω· Ἥμαρτον ἐνώπιόν σου Πάτερ οἰκτίρμον, δέξαι με μετανοοῦντα, καὶ ποίησόν με, ὡς ἕνα τῶν μισθίων σου.
Your fatherly due I withheld unthinking, in evil I wasted your wealth; a prodigal cries, "I've erred, father, receive the repentant as serf."

妙法蓮華經 Κοντάκιον τοῦ Ἀσώτου

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Malcolm
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Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Malcolm » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:47 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:21 pm
When they stopped being able to understand Latin in Europe, people would hear "Hoc est corpus meus" (This is my body). This happens right before communion, so it is a significant set of words.

Some started to believe that "Hoc est corpus meus" was literally a spell that summoned down God as that he could dwell in the bread. They decided to try to use these "magic words" themselves. Hocus Pocus.

That is only one etymology, mind you, but it is a very traditional one. Other people believe there are other origins to the words.

Alternatively some people think that it is a Czech colloquialism. Go figure.
Hocus Pocus is derogatory. So, it likely was an English phrase from the Reformation meant to belittle Catholics and High Episcopalians.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/hocus-pocus
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Virgo
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Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Virgo » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:34 pm

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:13 am
What is the origin of the mantra Hocus Pocus ?
The knowledge of this is said to have been lost before the age of Dragons, young mage.

Kevin
I may have made some mistakes, but I am just a person doing his best.

http://caretoclick.com/save-the-rainfor ... orestation

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Virgo
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Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Virgo » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:42 am

I can be Giaus and you can be Merlin.

Speak the dragon language!! :thumbsup:

Kevin
I may have made some mistakes, but I am just a person doing his best.

http://caretoclick.com/save-the-rainfor ... orestation

Fortyeightvows
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Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Fortyeightvows » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:27 am

Thanks alot for that link! Very interesting!
Coëmgenu wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:21 pm
When they stopped being able to understand Latin in Europe, people would hear "Hoc est corpus meus" (This is my body). This happens right before communion, so it is a significant set of words.
:good:
Virgo wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:34 pm
Kevin
236.jpg
236.jpg (49 KiB) Viewed 563 times

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Virgo
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Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Virgo » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:02 am

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:27 am

Image
:applause:
Kevin
I may have made some mistakes, but I am just a person doing his best.

http://caretoclick.com/save-the-rainfor ... orestation

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Coëmgenu
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Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Coëmgenu » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:09 pm

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:27 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:21 pm
When they stopped being able to understand Latin in Europe, people would hear "Hoc est corpus meus" (This is my body). This happens right before communion, so it is a significant set of words.
:good:
As good a posting as it may have seemed, I think Malcolm's point was more likely.

I was presuming a much larger area of diffusion for attestations of 'hocus pocus' as a magic term. I was thinking it would be attested to in some grimoires or something. I was also expecting the term to be considerably older than ~1700ish.
子念昔貧,志意下劣,今於父所,大獲珍寶,并及舍宅、一切財物。甚大歡喜,得未曾有。
The son thought of past poverty, outlook humble, now having from father a treasure harvest, also father's house, all his wealth. Great joy - to have what was never before had.

Τῆς πατρῴας, δόξης σου, ἀποσκιρτήσας ἀφρόνως, ἐν κακοῖς ἐσκόρπισα, ὅν μοι παρέδωκας πλοῦτον· ὅθεν σοι τὴν τοῦ Ἀσώτου, φωνὴν κραυγάζω· Ἥμαρτον ἐνώπιόν σου Πάτερ οἰκτίρμον, δέξαι με μετανοοῦντα, καὶ ποίησόν με, ὡς ἕνα τῶν μισθίων σου.
Your fatherly due I withheld unthinking, in evil I wasted your wealth; a prodigal cries, "I've erred, father, receive the repentant as serf."

妙法蓮華經 Κοντάκιον τοῦ Ἀσώτου

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liuzg150181
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Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by liuzg150181 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:27 am

Virgo wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:42 am
I can be Giaus and you can be Merlin.

Speak the dragon language!! :thumbsup:

Kevin
fus ro dah?

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