What is the origin of this mantra?

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Fortyeightvows
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What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Fortyeightvows » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:13 am

What is the origin of the mantra Hocus Pocus ?

Sādhaka
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Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Sādhaka » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:46 am

Seventh paragraph:

http://www.grandlodgescotland.com/mason ... importance

I doubt that they could be considered as actual Mantras in the true sense, but "Abracadabra", "Open Sesame", and "Hocus Pocus" are all said to have 'esoteric' roots. Then they became associated with legerdemain.
“...we should try to acquire clairvoyance. Without it, we are like a baby bird whose wings are undeveloped and has not yet grown feathers and remains stuck in its nest, unable to fly. Without clairvoyance, we cannot work for other sentient beings.” — Khunu Lama
“Just as a bird can not fly without both wings,
The welfare of others cannot be accomplished without the higher faculties of perception,
So diligently strive for your own wellbeing, whilst mentally considering the welfare of others.” — Longchenpa

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Coëmgenu
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Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Coëmgenu » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:21 pm

When they stopped being able to understand Latin in Europe, people would hear "Hoc est corpus meus" (This is my body). This happens right before communion, so it is a significant set of words.

Some started to believe that "Hoc est corpus meus" was literally a spell that summoned down God as that he could dwell in the bread. They decided to try to use these "magic words" themselves. Hocus Pocus.

That is only one etymology, mind you, but it is a very traditional one. Other people believe there are other origins to the words.

Alternatively some people think that it is a Czech colloquialism. Go figure.
歸命本覺心法身常住妙法心蓮臺本來莊嚴三身徳三十七尊住心
城遠離因果法然具普門塵數諸三昧無邊徳海本圓滿還我頂禮心諸佛

In reverence for the root gnosis of the heart, the dharmakāya,
for the ever present good law of the heart, the lotus terrace,
for the inborn adornment of the trikāya, the thirty-seven sages dwelling in the heart,
for that which is removed from seed and fruit, the upright key to the universal gate,
for all boundless concentrations, the sea of virtue, the root perfection,
I prostrate, bowing to the hearts of all Buddhas.

胎藏金剛菩提心義略問答鈔, Treatise on the teaching of the gnostic heart of the womb and the diamond, T2397.1.470c5-8

Malcolm
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Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Malcolm » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:47 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:21 pm
When they stopped being able to understand Latin in Europe, people would hear "Hoc est corpus meus" (This is my body). This happens right before communion, so it is a significant set of words.

Some started to believe that "Hoc est corpus meus" was literally a spell that summoned down God as that he could dwell in the bread. They decided to try to use these "magic words" themselves. Hocus Pocus.

That is only one etymology, mind you, but it is a very traditional one. Other people believe there are other origins to the words.

Alternatively some people think that it is a Czech colloquialism. Go figure.
Hocus Pocus is derogatory. So, it likely was an English phrase from the Reformation meant to belittle Catholics and High Episcopalians.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/hocus-pocus

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Virgo
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Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Virgo » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:34 pm

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:13 am
What is the origin of the mantra Hocus Pocus ?
The knowledge of this is said to have been lost before the age of Dragons, young mage.

Kevin

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Virgo
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Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Virgo » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:42 am

I can be Giaus and you can be Merlin.

Speak the dragon language!! :thumbsup:

Kevin

Fortyeightvows
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Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Fortyeightvows » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:27 am

Thanks alot for that link! Very interesting!
Coëmgenu wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:21 pm
When they stopped being able to understand Latin in Europe, people would hear "Hoc est corpus meus" (This is my body). This happens right before communion, so it is a significant set of words.
:good:
Virgo wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:34 pm
Kevin
236.jpg
236.jpg (49 KiB) Viewed 938 times

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Virgo
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Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Virgo » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:02 am

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:27 am

Image
:applause:
Kevin

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Coëmgenu
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Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by Coëmgenu » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:09 pm

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:27 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:21 pm
When they stopped being able to understand Latin in Europe, people would hear "Hoc est corpus meus" (This is my body). This happens right before communion, so it is a significant set of words.
:good:
As good a posting as it may have seemed, I think Malcolm's point was more likely.

I was presuming a much larger area of diffusion for attestations of 'hocus pocus' as a magic term. I was thinking it would be attested to in some grimoires or something. I was also expecting the term to be considerably older than ~1700ish.
歸命本覺心法身常住妙法心蓮臺本來莊嚴三身徳三十七尊住心
城遠離因果法然具普門塵數諸三昧無邊徳海本圓滿還我頂禮心諸佛

In reverence for the root gnosis of the heart, the dharmakāya,
for the ever present good law of the heart, the lotus terrace,
for the inborn adornment of the trikāya, the thirty-seven sages dwelling in the heart,
for that which is removed from seed and fruit, the upright key to the universal gate,
for all boundless concentrations, the sea of virtue, the root perfection,
I prostrate, bowing to the hearts of all Buddhas.

胎藏金剛菩提心義略問答鈔, Treatise on the teaching of the gnostic heart of the womb and the diamond, T2397.1.470c5-8

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liuzg150181
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Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Post by liuzg150181 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:27 am

Virgo wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:42 am
I can be Giaus and you can be Merlin.

Speak the dragon language!! :thumbsup:

Kevin
fus ro dah?

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