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What is the origin of this mantra?

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:13 am
by Fortyeightvows
What is the origin of the mantra Hocus Pocus ?

Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:46 am
by Sādhaka
Seventh paragraph:

http://www.grandlodgescotland.com/mason ... importance

I doubt that they could be considered as actual Mantras in the true sense, but "Abracadabra", "Open Sesame", and "Hocus Pocus" are all said to have 'esoteric' roots. Then they became associated with legerdemain.

Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:21 pm
by Coëmgenu
When they stopped being able to understand Latin in Europe, people would hear "Hoc est corpus meus" (This is my body). This happens right before communion, so it is a significant set of words.

Some started to believe that "Hoc est corpus meus" was literally a spell that summoned down God as that he could dwell in the bread. They decided to try to use these "magic words" themselves. Hocus Pocus.

That is only one etymology, mind you, but it is a very traditional one. Other people believe there are other origins to the words.

Alternatively some people think that it is a Czech colloquialism. Go figure.

Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:47 pm
by Malcolm
Coëmgenu wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:21 pm
When they stopped being able to understand Latin in Europe, people would hear "Hoc est corpus meus" (This is my body). This happens right before communion, so it is a significant set of words.

Some started to believe that "Hoc est corpus meus" was literally a spell that summoned down God as that he could dwell in the bread. They decided to try to use these "magic words" themselves. Hocus Pocus.

That is only one etymology, mind you, but it is a very traditional one. Other people believe there are other origins to the words.

Alternatively some people think that it is a Czech colloquialism. Go figure.
Hocus Pocus is derogatory. So, it likely was an English phrase from the Reformation meant to belittle Catholics and High Episcopalians.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/hocus-pocus

Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:34 pm
by Virgo
Fortyeightvows wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:13 am
What is the origin of the mantra Hocus Pocus ?
The knowledge of this is said to have been lost before the age of Dragons, young mage.

Kevin

Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:42 am
by Virgo
I can be Giaus and you can be Merlin.

Speak the dragon language!! :thumbsup:

Kevin

Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:27 am
by Fortyeightvows
Thanks alot for that link! Very interesting!
Coëmgenu wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:21 pm
When they stopped being able to understand Latin in Europe, people would hear "Hoc est corpus meus" (This is my body). This happens right before communion, so it is a significant set of words.
:good:
Virgo wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:34 pm
Kevin
236.jpg
236.jpg (49 KiB) Viewed 738 times

Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:02 am
by Virgo
Fortyeightvows wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:27 am

Image
:applause:
Kevin

Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:09 pm
by Coëmgenu
Fortyeightvows wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:27 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:21 pm
When they stopped being able to understand Latin in Europe, people would hear "Hoc est corpus meus" (This is my body). This happens right before communion, so it is a significant set of words.
:good:
As good a posting as it may have seemed, I think Malcolm's point was more likely.

I was presuming a much larger area of diffusion for attestations of 'hocus pocus' as a magic term. I was thinking it would be attested to in some grimoires or something. I was also expecting the term to be considerably older than ~1700ish.

Re: What is the origin of this mantra?

Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:27 am
by liuzg150181
Virgo wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:42 am
I can be Giaus and you can be Merlin.

Speak the dragon language!! :thumbsup:

Kevin
fus ro dah?