AH-HA

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Jeff H
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AH-HA

Post by Jeff H » Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:38 pm

Well, an aha! is what I’m seeking, but my question is about the Tibetan AH (A). Could someone clarify for me the difference between these Tibetan characters?

ཨཱ
ཨཱཿ
འཿ
I think the ཿ is like a comma or separation between syllables, and if so it doesn’t count for what I’m asking (except that I wonder if there is a difference when a line appears between the two circles: ).

But I see that the Six Syllables (A AH HA SHA SA MA) are: འ ཨ ཧ ཤ ས མ. I think I heard ChNN make a distinction in pronunciation between and at the last retreat, but I didn’t understand.

And then there's this guy: ཨཱ which seems to be a third instance as the AH in OM AH HUM.
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

Losal Samten
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Re: AH-HA

Post by Losal Samten » Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:47 pm

Jeff H wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:38 pm
འ ཨ ཧ ཤ ས མ. I think I heard ChNN make a distinction in pronunciation between and at the last retreat, but I didn’t understand.
The first has the throat/glottis open throughout, whereas the second starts with it closed, popping open with the sound.
Lacking mindfulness, we commit every wrong. - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔
ཨཱོཾ་མ་ཏྲི་མུ་ཡེ་སལེ་འདུ།།

Pero
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Re: AH-HA

Post by Pero » Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:47 pm

Jeff H wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:38 pm
Well, an aha! is what I’m seeking, but my question is about the Tibetan AH (A). Could someone clarify for me the difference between these Tibetan characters?

ཨཱ
ཨཱཿ
འཿ
I think the ཿ is like a comma or separation between syllables, and if so it doesn’t count for what I’m asking (except that I wonder if there is a difference when a line appears between the two circles: ).
The two circles indicate a terma text (no change in pronounciation).
But I see that the Six Syllables (A AH HA SHA SA MA) are: འ ཨ ཧ ཤ ས མ. I think I heard ChNN make a distinction in pronunciation between and at the last retreat, but I didn’t understand.
The འ is kind of deeper, you pronounce it without blocking the throat first.
And then there's this guy: ཨཱ which seems to be a third instance as the AH in OM AH HUM.
I think this means it's a long A but I am unclear on the difference in pronounciation as I personally don't hear a difference.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
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fuki
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Re: AH-HA

Post by fuki » Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:52 pm

Jeff H wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:38 pm
Tibetan AH (A).
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Cianan
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Re: AH-HA

Post by Cianan » Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:58 pm

Jeff H wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:38 pm
Well, an aha! is what I’m seeking, but my question is about the Tibetan AH (A). Could someone clarify for me the difference between these Tibetan characters?

ཨཱ
ཨཱཿ
འཿ
I think the ཿ is like a comma or separation between syllables, and if so it doesn’t count for what I’m asking (except that I wonder if there is a difference when a line appears between the two circles: ).

But I see that the Six Syllables (A AH HA SHA SA MA) are: འ ཨ ཧ ཤ ས མ. I think I heard ChNN make a distinction in pronunciation between and at the last retreat, but I didn’t understand.

And then there's this guy: ཨཱ which seems to be a third instance as the AH in OM AH HUM.
is the basic vowel: A. The diacritic modifying ཨཱ is used only in writing Sanskrit as a matra, elongating the vowel: Ā. The diacritical two circles modifying ཨཱཿ are also used only in writing Sanskrit as a visarga whose pronunciation varies in Sanskrit, sometimes pronounced as a faint echo of the preceding vowel, having no particular effect on pronunciation in Tibetan: ĀḤ—this is how the seed syllable of enlightened speech is written in accordance with Sanskrit. , on the other hand, known as a "treasure break" in Tibetan, is a punctuation mark or textual delimiter somewhat like a comma.
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Pero
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Re: AH-HA

Post by Pero » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:43 pm

Cianan wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:58 pm
is the basic vowel: A. The diacritic modifying ཨཱ is used only in writing Sanskrit as a matra, elongating the vowel: Ā. The diacritical two circles modifying ཨཱཿ are also used only in writing Sanskrit as a visarga whose pronunciation varies in Sanskrit, sometimes pronounced as a faint echo of the preceding vowel, having no particular effect on pronunciation in Tibetan: ĀḤ—this is how the seed syllable of enlightened speech is written in accordance with Sanskrit. , on the other hand, known as a "treasure break" in Tibetan, is a punctuation mark or textual delimiter somewhat like a comma.
Thanks for the correction.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

amanitamusc
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Re: AH-HA

Post by amanitamusc » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:17 pm

Pero wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:47 pm

And then there's this guy: ཨཱ which seems to be a third instance as the AH in OM AH HUM.
I think this means it's a long A but I am unclear on the difference in pronounciation as I personally don't hear a difference.

The Ah from om ah hung has a stronger aspiration on the end of it.

Pero
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Re: AH-HA

Post by Pero » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:31 pm

amanitamusc wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:17 pm
Pero wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:47 pm

And then there's this guy: ཨཱ which seems to be a third instance as the AH in OM AH HUM.
I think this means it's a long A but I am unclear on the difference in pronounciation as I personally don't hear a difference.

The Ah from om ah hung has a stronger aspiration on the end of it.
I see, thanks.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

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Mantrik
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Re: AH-HA

Post by Mantrik » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:37 pm

Jeff H wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:38 pm


But I see that the Six Syllables (A AH HA SHA SA MA) are: འ ཨ ཧ ཤ ས མ. I think I heard ChNN make a distinction in pronunciation between and at the last retreat, but I didn’t understand.
Yes, definitely no glottal stop between the first two. Takes practice. :)
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Jeff H
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Re: AH-HA

Post by Jeff H » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:46 pm

Thanks everyone! So here’s my take-away:
is a deeper AH with no glottal stop
is pronounced with a glottal stop
ཨཱ is a rendering of Sanskrit (in OM AH HUM) pronounced the same as
ཿ is another Sanskrit rendering which doesn’t appreciably change the Tibetan
on the other hand is used similarly to a comma

One other thing. I don’t think I’m likely to get this far, but if I wanted to type Tibetan words, what should I download in Windows 10/Word 2016 for the alphabet, and how would I set up the keyboard? (So far using Unicode is perfectly adequate for me, but pretty clunky all the same.)
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

Pero
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Re: AH-HA

Post by Pero » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:36 pm

Jeff H wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:46 pm
on the other hand is used similarly to a comma
Only appears in terma texts, not otherwise. I think it basically means just that it's the end of a line (so "textual delimiter" which Cianan mentioned), which of our punctuation marks would be there depends on what the text is saying around that spot.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

Jeff H
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Location: Vermont, USA

Re: AH-HA

Post by Jeff H » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:41 pm

Pero wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:36 pm
Jeff H wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:46 pm
on the other hand is used similarly to a comma
Only appears in terma texts, not otherwise. I think it basically means just that it's the end of a line (so "textual delimiter" which Cianan mentioned), which of our punctuation marks would be there depends on what the text is saying around that spot.
Hmm. I was going by this from Cianan:
Cianan wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:58 pm
The diacritical two circles modifying ཨཱཿ are also used only in writing Sanskrit as a visarga ... having no particular effect on pronunciation in Tibetan. ... , on the other hand, known as a "treasure break" in Tibetan, is a punctuation mark or textual delimiter somewhat like a comma.
I thought this: marked the end of a line (or section), and this: marked the end of a topic.
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

Pero
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Re: AH-HA

Post by Pero » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:15 pm

Jeff H wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:41 pm
Pero wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:36 pm
Jeff H wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:46 pm
on the other hand is used similarly to a comma
Only appears in terma texts, not otherwise. I think it basically means just that it's the end of a line (so "textual delimiter" which Cianan mentioned), which of our punctuation marks would be there depends on what the text is saying around that spot.
Hmm. I was going by this from Cianan:
Cianan wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:58 pm
The diacritical two circles modifying ཨཱཿ are also used only in writing Sanskrit as a visarga ... having no particular effect on pronunciation in Tibetan. ... , on the other hand, known as a "treasure break" in Tibetan, is a punctuation mark or textual delimiter somewhat like a comma.
I thought this: marked the end of a line (or section), and this: marked the end of a topic.
Yeah but in termas (treasures) the lines end with ༔ instead.
http://digitaltibetan.org/index.php/Formatting_rules_for_Tibetan_text wrote: Terma signs: In case a section of text that is actually a gter ma, a single terma symbol ༔ replaces both shad ། and double shad ། །. Wood-block pechas sometimes simplify the gter ma ༔ so that it looks like a visarga ཿ, but digital texts should use the proper terma sign ༔.
Also I wonder if that wood-block thing mentioned is why I made the mistake above. I probably saw it somewhere. :shrug:
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

Jeff H
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Location: Vermont, USA

Re: AH-HA

Post by Jeff H » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:12 pm

Pero wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:15 pm
Jeff H wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:41 pm
Pero wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:36 pm

Only appears in terma texts, not otherwise. I think it basically means just that it's the end of a line (so "textual delimiter" which Cianan mentioned), which of our punctuation marks would be there depends on what the text is saying around that spot.
Hmm. I was going by this from Cianan:
Cianan wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:58 pm
The diacritical two circles modifying ཨཱཿ are also used only in writing Sanskrit as a visarga ... having no particular effect on pronunciation in Tibetan. ... , on the other hand, known as a "treasure break" in Tibetan, is a punctuation mark or textual delimiter somewhat like a comma.
I thought this: marked the end of a line (or section), and this: marked the end of a topic.
Yeah but in termas (treasures) the lines end with ༔ instead.
http://digitaltibetan.org/index.php/Formatting_rules_for_Tibetan_text wrote: Terma signs: In case a section of text that is actually a gter ma, a single terma symbol ༔ replaces both shad ། and double shad ། །. Wood-block pechas sometimes simplify the gter ma ༔ so that it looks like a visarga ཿ, but digital texts should use the proper terma sign ༔.
Also I wonder if that wood-block thing mentioned is why I made the mistake above. I probably saw it somewhere. :shrug:
Got it. Thanks. (Well, "got it" may be overstating it a bit, but I see what you mean.)

Thanks for the site you linked to, too. It had the answer to my other question.
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

Tenma
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Re: AH-HA

Post by Tenma » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:44 pm

What about the "Ah" for the moon disc seat?

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