thugs kyi dgongs pa

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dharmafootsteps
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thugs kyi dgongs pa

Post by dharmafootsteps » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:41 am

I'm trying to understand the phrase thugs kyi dgongs pa. In context it's:

ཐུགས་ཀྱི་དགོངས་པ་རིག་པ་རང་ཤར་གྱི་ངོ་བོ་བདག་ལ་
thugs kyi dgongs pa rig pa rang shar gyi ngo bo bdag la

The translation I have is: "(they) direct (their) minds, the quintessence of self-manifest awareness, towards me"

The second part is fine with me, but does that seem right for thugs kyi dgongs pa? I'm having trouble unpacking that part. I feel like some of the sense of dgongs pa is being lost, but I'm not quite sure how to express it.

Temicco
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Re: thugs kyi dgongs pa

Post by Temicco » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:28 am

dharmafootsteps wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:41 am
I'm trying to understand the phrase thugs kyi dgongs pa. In context it's:

ཐུགས་ཀྱི་དགོངས་པ་རིག་པ་རང་ཤར་གྱི་ངོ་བོ་བདག་ལ་
thugs kyi dgongs pa rig pa rang shar gyi ngo bo bdag la

The translation I have is: "(they) direct (their) minds, the quintessence of self-manifest awareness, towards me"

The second part is fine with me, but does that seem right for thugs kyi dgongs pa? I'm having trouble unpacking that part. I feel like some of the sense of dgongs pa is being lost, but I'm not quite sure how to express it.
Is it definitely supposed to be a full sentence?
"Deliberate upon that which does not deliberate."
-Yaoshan Weiyan

"Right now if students are in fact truly genuine, source teachers can contact their potential and activate it with a single word or phrase, or a single act or scene."
-Yuanwu Keqin

tingdzin
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Re: thugs kyi dgongs pa

Post by tingdzin » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:32 am

Temicco wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:28 am
Is it definitely supposed to be a full sentence?
Doesn't seem to be.

Temicco
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Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:47 am

Re: thugs kyi dgongs pa

Post by Temicco » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:58 pm

tingdzin wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:32 am
Temicco wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:28 am
Is it definitely supposed to be a full sentence?
Doesn't seem to be.
That was my thought too...
"Deliberate upon that which does not deliberate."
-Yaoshan Weiyan

"Right now if students are in fact truly genuine, source teachers can contact their potential and activate it with a single word or phrase, or a single act or scene."
-Yuanwu Keqin

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conebeckham
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Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: thugs kyi dgongs pa

Post by conebeckham » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:50 pm

ཐུགས་ཀྱི་དགོངས་པ་རིག་པ་རང་ཤར་གྱི་ངོ་བོ་བདག་ལ་

Keep in mind that the first phrase refers to the honorific "thugs" which is not just "mind," but potentially "Buddha's Mind," or Enlightened Mind. It can, however, refer to one's own mind in some instances, esp. when one is contemplating something.

This is not a full sentence, so the full context is missing. As for "rig pa rang shar kyi ngo bo" "the quintessence of self-manifest awareness" is okay, but I would gloss the whole phrase as "taking as the object of contemplation, (Or as the "intent of contemplative mind") the essence of one's self-manifest Vidya...." Not merely "Awareness," but a knowledge of a specific sort of awareness.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Malcolm
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Re: thugs kyi dgongs pa

Post by Malcolm » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:57 pm

conebeckham wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:50 pm
ཐུགས་ཀྱི་དགོངས་པ་རིག་པ་རང་ཤར་གྱི་ངོ་བོ་བདག་ལ་

Keep in mind that the first phrase refers to the honorific "thugs" which is not just "mind," but potentially "Buddha's Mind," or Enlightened Mind. It can, however, refer to one's own mind in some instances, esp. when one is contemplating something.

This is not a full sentence, so the full context is missing. As for "rig pa rang shar kyi ngo bo" "the quintessence of self-manifest awareness" is okay, but I would gloss the whole phrase as "taking as the object of contemplation, (Or as the "intent of contemplative mind") the essence of one's self-manifest Vidya...." Not merely "Awareness," but a knowledge of a specific sort of awareness.
dgongs pa here is not "intent," abhipraya. but samanvāhāra, which means something like "focuses on," "directed to," etc.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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conebeckham
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Re: thugs kyi dgongs pa

Post by conebeckham » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:17 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:57 pm
conebeckham wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:50 pm
ཐུགས་ཀྱི་དགོངས་པ་རིག་པ་རང་ཤར་གྱི་ངོ་བོ་བདག་ལ་

Keep in mind that the first phrase refers to the honorific "thugs" which is not just "mind," but potentially "Buddha's Mind," or Enlightened Mind. It can, however, refer to one's own mind in some instances, esp. when one is contemplating something.

This is not a full sentence, so the full context is missing. As for "rig pa rang shar kyi ngo bo" "the quintessence of self-manifest awareness" is okay, but I would gloss the whole phrase as "taking as the object of contemplation, (Or as the "intent of contemplative mind") the essence of one's self-manifest Vidya...." Not merely "Awareness," but a knowledge of a specific sort of awareness.
dgongs pa here is not "intent," abhipraya. but samanvāhāra, which means something like "focuses on," "directed to," etc.
Thanks! So, my initial gloss (leaving out the parenthetical re "intent"") works for you?
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

Temicco
Posts: 158
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:47 am

Re: thugs kyi dgongs pa

Post by Temicco » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:50 am

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:57 pm
dgongs pa here is not "intent," abhipraya. but samanvāhāra, which means something like "focuses on," "directed to," etc.
Is this text a translation from Sanskrit, or is there something else that impels a Sanskrit gloss of the Tibetan?
"Deliberate upon that which does not deliberate."
-Yaoshan Weiyan

"Right now if students are in fact truly genuine, source teachers can contact their potential and activate it with a single word or phrase, or a single act or scene."
-Yuanwu Keqin

tingdzin
Posts: 1058
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:19 am

Re: thugs kyi dgongs pa

Post by tingdzin » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:01 am

Temicco wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:50 am
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:57 pm
dgongs pa here is not "intent," abhipraya. but samanvāhāra, which means something like "focuses on," "directed to," etc.
Is this text a translation from Sanskrit, or is there something else that impels a Sanskrit gloss of the Tibetan?
Yes, well said.

dharmafootsteps
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Location: Boudha, Ktm

Re: thugs kyi dgongs pa

Post by dharmafootsteps » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:25 am

Thanks all for the input. The phrase is part of a long, run-on sentence, so I just posted the clause I was interested in to try to simply things - it seems that just made it more confusing though.

It's from "Awakening at Dawn from the Sleep of Unknowing". I just found another translation by EPK here: https://tsoknyirinpoche.org/teachings/a ... unknowing/
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:57 pm
dgongs pa here is not "intent," abhipraya. but samanvāhāra, which means something like "focuses on," "directed to," etc.
That's very helpful, thanks Malcolm. I didn't know it could take that meaning.

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