Hindu with circumflex?

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Nicholas Weeks
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Hindu with circumflex?

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

While reading an old 1930s book I noticed Hindû used with a diacritical. Same with Hindûsthân. Nowadays I do not see that, is or was that legitimate then?

Maybe like nirvana, hindu is been Englished so often, the diacriticals are ignored??
May all seek, find & follow the Path of Buddhas.
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Hindu with circumflex?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

:coffee:

I suspect you're right, Will, but the word's history is tangled enough that any spelling you can think of - and a few you can't - will have been used in the past.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/Hindu
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/h_meaning.asp
“Many scholars and historians have concluded that the word ‘Hindu’ was coined by the ancient invaders who could not accurately pronounce the name of the River Sindhu. According to Sir Monier Williams, the famous Sanskrit lexicographer, the words ‘Hindu’ and ‘India’ evidently do not possess any indigenous roots. Neither these words are found in any Buddhist or Jain texts, nor are they inscribed in any of the 23 official languages of India.

Some sources report that when Alexander-the Great first invaded India around 325 B.C., he renamed the River Sindhu as ‘Indu’. He dropped the first letter ‘S’ from the word, coining a much simpler word for the Greeks to pronounce. Eventually, the river came to be known as ‘Indus’. Alexander’s Macedonian forces thereafter called the land which was east to the river Indus as India, a name mainly recognized by the British. Before this, the land was mostly known as ‘Bharat Varsha’ in the Vedic era and many people still prefer to call the land by this name.
(This is quoted on another page but its source is not given.)

Personally, seeing it spelled "Hindoo" makes me happy because it takes me straight back to the Raj and some of my favourite childhood books.

:smile:
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tingdzin
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Re: Hindu with circumflex?

Post by tingdzin »

Actually, the "h"/ "s" difference is from the difference between Indic and Iranian languages; hence the Vedic "asura" being of the same root as the "Ahura" in the Zoroastrian "Ahura Mazda".
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Caoimhghín
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Re: Hindu with circumflex?

Post by Caoimhghín »

Nicholas Weeks wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:15 pm While reading an old 1930s book I noticed Hindû used with a diacritical. Same with Hindûsthân. Nowadays I do not see that, is or was that legitimate then?

Maybe like nirvana, hindu is been Englished so often, the diacriticals are ignored??
The word Hindū is actually Persian. The Sanskrit is síndhu,as mentioned above.
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
pothigai
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Re: Hindu with circumflex?

Post by pothigai »

Coëmgenu wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:18 am
Nicholas Weeks wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:15 pm While reading an old 1930s book I noticed Hindû used with a diacritical. Same with Hindûsthân. Nowadays I do not see that, is or was that legitimate then?

Maybe like nirvana, hindu is been Englished so often, the diacriticals are ignored??
The word Hindū is actually Persian. The Sanskrit is síndhu,as mentioned above.
Hindu is from Avestan Persian AFAIK. In Farsi it's hendi (ہندی).
ہستی اپنی حباب کی سی ہے
یہ نمائش سراب کی سی ہے

hasti apni habaab ki si hai
yeh numaaish saraab ki si hai

Like a bubble is your existence
This display is like an illusion

- Mir Taqi Mir (1725-1810)
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Caoimhghín
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Re: Hindu with circumflex?

Post by Caoimhghín »

pothigai wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:26 am
Coëmgenu wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:18 am
Nicholas Weeks wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:15 pm While reading an old 1930s book I noticed Hindû used with a diacritical. Same with Hindûsthân. Nowadays I do not see that, is or was that legitimate then?

Maybe like nirvana, hindu is been Englished so often, the diacriticals are ignored??
The word Hindū is actually Persian. The Sanskrit is síndhu,as mentioned above.
Hindu is from Avestan Persian AFAIK. In Farsi it's hendi (ہندی).
We learn more every day.

I had just assumed Farsi would be a descendent of Avestan.
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
Nicholas Weeks
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Location: California

Re: Hindu with circumflex?

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

One dictionary says origin is Urdu, from Persian hindū, from Hind, India... :shrug:
May all seek, find & follow the Path of Buddhas.
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Caoimhghín
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Re: Hindu with circumflex?

Post by Caoimhghín »

Nicholas Weeks wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:49 am One dictionary says origin is Urdu, from Persian hindū, from Hind, India... :shrug:
Wiktionary to the rescue:

Hindū: From Persian هندو‎ (Hindū, “Indian, Hindu”), from Middle Persian hndwk' (Hindūg, “Indian”), from hnd (Hind, “India”), from Old Persian hindu-, “India”, from Sanskrit सिन्धु (síndhu, “river, stream; Indus”), from Proto-Indo-Aryan *síndʰuṣ, from Proto-Indo-Iranian *sindʰuš (“river”).

hndwk': From Old Persian hinduš, from Sanskrit सिन्धु (sindhu, “the Indus River”) or Proto-Iranian *sindʰu. Also see hnd (hind).
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
User avatar
Caoimhghín
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Re: Hindu with circumflex?

Post by Caoimhghín »

Coëmgenu wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:09 am
Nicholas Weeks wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:49 am One dictionary says origin is Urdu, from Persian hindū, from Hind, India... :shrug:
Wiktionary to the rescue:

Hindū: From Persian هندو‎ (Hindū, “Indian, Hindu”), from Middle Persian hndwk' (Hindūg, “Indian”), from hnd (Hind, “India”), from Old Persian hindu-, “India”, from Sanskrit सिन्धु (síndhu, “river, stream; Indus”), from Proto-Indo-Aryan *síndʰuṣ, from Proto-Indo-Iranian *sindʰuš (“river”).

hndwk': From Old Persian hinduš, from Sanskrit सिन्धु (sindhu, “the Indus River”) or Proto-Iranian *sindʰu. Also see hnd (hind).
Its hard to find wiktionary's citations but this comes from

MacKenzie, D. N. (1971) A concise Pahlavi dictionary, London, New York, Toronto: Oxford University Press
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
pothigai
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Re: Hindu with circumflex?

Post by pothigai »

I asked some Farsi speakers, they said that 'hendu' refers to roughly the same thing as the English word 'Hindu', and 'hendi' refers to the same thing as the English word 'Indian'. The reason it's 'hendu' and not 'hindu' is because there was a phonological shift in Persian in which short 'i' became a short 'e'.
ہستی اپنی حباب کی سی ہے
یہ نمائش سراب کی سی ہے

hasti apni habaab ki si hai
yeh numaaish saraab ki si hai

Like a bubble is your existence
This display is like an illusion

- Mir Taqi Mir (1725-1810)
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