Tibetan language question

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javier.espinoza.t
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Tibetan language question

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:20 am

Hello,

i'm in the way of learning tibetan, but i don't know wich tibetan. so i would like to ask a few questions, if you can answer please do so. i will try to point from what considerations i'm trying to ask:
  • Today there is no standard, there are dialects that have until some point a common corpse of language
  • Language did change in the course of time, let's say since 8th century until today, what is being speaked as tibetan is not the same tibetan as before
  • We don't know exactly how old-dharma-related-tibetan language was (there was no tech to preserve the sound)
  • So the texts are the same, the language is not
i took a course on the basics and Lhasa dialect, and have being told too that there is the hipothesis that the Ladhaki language is the less changed tibetan language over time. what have you heard on this?

and also ¿is it true that ladhaki is spelled in the same way as sanskrit using the tibetan alphabet?

thank you very much, cheers!
"Don't profess a view you haven't realized!
Since the view is devoid of viewing, mind essence is an expanse of great emptiness.
Since the meditation is without meditating, leave your individual experience free from fixation.
Since the conduct is without acting, it is unfabricated naturalness.
Since the fruition is without abandoning or achieving, it is the dharmakaya of great bliss.
These four sentences are words from my heart:
Contradict them and you fail to discover the nature of Ati Yoga."


Guru Padmasambhava.
From "Advice from the Lotus-Born".

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practitioner
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Re: Tibetan language question

Post by practitioner » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:51 am

It depends on your goals, as I’m sure you know that colloquial Tibetan is very different from classical Tibetan.

If your goal is to read Dharma texts, classical is what you should learn. If your goal is to converse with a Tibetan (ie work as a translator) then start with colloquial. I have heard differing advice as to whether it is better to learn your teachers dialect or just learning Lhasa dialect as many Tibetans can understand Lhasa dialect regardless of where they are from.
One should do nothing other than benefit sentient beings either directly or indirectly - Shantideva

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Tibetan language question

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:47 pm

practitioner wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:51 am
It depends on your goals, as I’m sure you know that colloquial Tibetan is very different from classical Tibetan.

If your goal is to read Dharma texts, classical is what you should learn. If your goal is to converse with a Tibetan (ie work as a translator) then start with colloquial. I have heard differing advice as to whether it is better to learn your teachers dialect or just learning Lhasa dialect as many Tibetans can understand Lhasa dialect regardless of where they are from.
my goal is, for example, to correctly practice an 8th century sadhana wich contains invocations in tibetan language, etc.

in this regard, to be honest i don't know how valid a dialect is against my long time used fake tibetan pronunciation. So i'm considering just be ridicule and use the phonetics as the ancient lang is supoused to be :shrug:
"Don't profess a view you haven't realized!
Since the view is devoid of viewing, mind essence is an expanse of great emptiness.
Since the meditation is without meditating, leave your individual experience free from fixation.
Since the conduct is without acting, it is unfabricated naturalness.
Since the fruition is without abandoning or achieving, it is the dharmakaya of great bliss.
These four sentences are words from my heart:
Contradict them and you fail to discover the nature of Ati Yoga."


Guru Padmasambhava.
From "Advice from the Lotus-Born".

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Caoimhghín
Posts: 1921
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Location: Whitby, Ontario

Re: Tibetan language question

Post by Caoimhghín » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:19 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:47 pm
practitioner wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:51 am
It depends on your goals, as I’m sure you know that colloquial Tibetan is very different from classical Tibetan.

If your goal is to read Dharma texts, classical is what you should learn. If your goal is to converse with a Tibetan (ie work as a translator) then start with colloquial. I have heard differing advice as to whether it is better to learn your teachers dialect or just learning Lhasa dialect as many Tibetans can understand Lhasa dialect regardless of where they are from.
my goal is, for example, to correctly practice an 8th century sadhana wich contains invocations in tibetan language, etc.

in this regard, to be honest i don't know how valid a dialect is against my long time used fake tibetan pronunciation. So i'm considering just be ridicule and use the phonetics as the ancient lang is supoused to be :shrug:
If you want to speak "classical" Tibetan, get ready for some crazy consonant clusters!
歸命本覺心法身常住妙法心蓮臺本來莊嚴三身徳三十七尊住心
城遠離因果法然具普門塵數諸三昧無邊徳海本圓滿還我頂禮心諸佛

In reverence for the root gnosis of the heart, the dharmakāya,
for the ever present good law of the heart, the lotus terrace,
for the inborn adornment of the trikāya, the thirty-seven sages dwelling in the heart,
for that which is removed from seed and fruit, the upright key to the universal gate,
for all boundless concentrations, the sea of virtue, the root perfection,
I prostrate, bowing to the hearts of all Buddhas.

胎藏金剛菩提心義略問答鈔, Treatise on the teaching of the gnostic heart of the womb and the diamond, T2397.1.470c5-8

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