rdo rje 'chang vs. rdo rje 'dzin

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Temicco
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rdo rje 'chang vs. rdo rje 'dzin

Post by Temicco »

Is there a difference between the original Sanskrit for rdo rje 'chang and rdo rje 'dzin? I feel like it must not be "Vajradhara" for both, because why would the Tibetans have used two different words when translating the same name? So, are there indeed originally two separate Sanskrit terms?
"Deliberate upon that which does not deliberate."
-Yaoshan Weiyan (tr. chintokkong)

若覓真不動。動上有不動。
"Search for what it really is to be unmoving in what does not move amid movement."
-Huineng (tr. Mark Crosbie)

ཚེ་འདི་ལ་ཞེན་ན་ཆོས་པ་མིན། །
འཁོར་བ་ལ་ཞེན་ན་ངེས་འབྱུང་མིན། །
བདག་དོན་ལ་ཞེན་ན་བྱང་སེམས་མིན། །
འཛིན་པ་བྱུང་ན་ལྟ་བ་མིན། །
Bristollad
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Re: rdo rje 'chang vs. rdo rje 'dzin

Post by Bristollad »

According to some online dictionaries one is Vajradhara and the other is Vajrapani:

Vajradhara
http://dictionary.christian-steinert.de ... %22%3A0%7D

Vajrapani
http://dictionary.christian-steinert.de ... %22%3A0%7D
The antidote—to be free from the suffering of samsara—you need to be free from delusion and karma; you need to be free from ignorance, the root of samsara. So you need to meditate on emptiness. That is what you need. Lama Zopa Rinpoche
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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: rdo rje 'chang vs. rdo rje 'dzin

Post by Thomas Amundsen »

PKTC Illuminator has this:
>> རྡོ་རྗེ་འཛིན་པ་
>> <noun> "Vajra holder". Note the difference between this and rdo rje `chang Vajradhara q.v. 1) Epithet of rdo rje `chang Vajradhara q.v. 2) Epithet of phyag na rdo rje "Vajrapāṇi" q.v. 3) General name in the language of the tantras for a person who is well-trained in the tantras. 4) Epithet of the god brgya byin Kauśhika q.v. 5) Name of the 13th bhūmi according to the tantras; see rdo rje `dzin pa`i sa q.v.
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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: rdo rje 'chang vs. rdo rje 'dzin

Post by Thomas Amundsen »

Thomas Amundsen wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:06 pm PKTC Illuminator has this:
>> རྡོ་རྗེ་འཛིན་པ་
>> <noun> "Vajra holder". Note the difference between this and rdo rje `chang Vajradhara q.v. 1) Epithet of rdo rje `chang Vajradhara q.v. 2) Epithet of phyag na rdo rje "Vajrapāṇi" q.v. 3) General name in the language of the tantras for a person who is well-trained in the tantras. 4) Epithet of the god brgya byin Kauśhika q.v. 5) Name of the 13th bhūmi according to the tantras; see rdo rje `dzin pa`i sa q.v.
>> རྡོ་རྗེ་འཆང་
>> <noun> "Vajra Bearer". Translation of the Sanskrit "vajradhara". The Sanskrit and Tibetan terms mean "bearer of the vajra" and note that this is slightly different from rdo rje `dzin pa "holder of the vajra". The "bearer of the vajra" has more air of authority to it; it means the person who has it and is the authority of it. The "holder of the vajra" means more simply, someone who has the vajra, who is well acquainted with it. The term rdo rje `dzin pa "holder of the vajra" q.v. is thus a more general term, applied to many different beings, including Vajradhara. Since there is a distinction, it is necessary not to translate the two terms in the same way.
1) In the new tantras, Vajradhara is regarded as the primordial buddha. In the old tantras, he is taken as the dharmakāya aspect of the saṃbhogakāya and then Samantabhadra, who is taken as the dharmakāya itself, is taken as the primordial buddha. Hence he is also one of the rgyal ba rigs drug "six families of the conquerors". 2) "Vajra Holder". The name of the fifth of the rdzogs chen ston pa bcu gnyis twelve founding teachers of rdzogs pa chen po Great Completion. 3) In the new tantras, often used as an epithet either of one`s personal guru or of great masters in the lineage who are seen as the ultimate enlightenment (in that system) in person. 4) In Vedas of Hindu literature, Vajradhara is an epithet of Indra, the Vedic chief of gods (because Indra is the god who had the original vajra as one of his sceptres of power).
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