Concise Guide to Conservatism

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Rick
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Re: Concise Guide to Conservatism

Post by Rick » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:04 pm

I found this editorial in the NY Times today to be illuminating: nytimes.com/2019/12/29/opinion/william-barr-trump.html
America’s conservative movement, having morphed into a religious nationalist movement, is on a collision course with the American constitutional system. Though conservatives have long claimed to be the true champions of the Constitution — remember all that chatter during previous Republican administrations about “originalism” and “judicial restraint” — the movement that now controls the Republican Party is committed to a suite of ideas that are fundamentally incompatible with the Constitution and the Republic that the founders created under its auspices.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Concise Guide to Conservatism

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:37 pm

Thanks to a paywall cannot read the NYT editorial.

However, this thread is focussed on Russell Kirk's view of Conservatism. Yes, it differs, to some degree, from that of today.

Whereas, today's Democrat party is identical with that of JFK and FDR - right?

Which movement is more destructive of this US culture? The present day Left is - not that movement of Kirk or Babbitt or Santayana, as I see it.
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Malcolm
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Re: Concise Guide to Conservatism

Post by Malcolm » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:04 pm

Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:37 pm
Which movement is more destructive of this US culture?
Trumpism.

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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Concise Guide to Conservatism

Post by Könchok Thrinley » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:11 pm

Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:37 pm
The present day Left is - not that movement of Kirk or Babbitt or Santayana, as I see it.
That is because Left is basically politicaly dead in most western countries. The most significant thing happening now is Bernie who is probably the first real socialist politician in the US history and Jeremy Corbyn's labour which unfortunately didn't manage to respond to the Torries properly.

It seems to me that generally conservatism has gone from a rather pragmatic ideaology to just denial of facts and general a-holery and money grabbing. While what is considered left is nowhere near as "socialist" (meaning for the wellbeing of workers in particular and the society as a whole) as it could and should be.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.

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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Concise Guide to Conservatism

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:14 am

Malcolm wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:04 pm
Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:37 pm
Which movement is more destructive of this US culture?
Trumpism.
Flapdoodle. Go back to translating.

Trump is not & will not produce any 'ism'. He is simply noticing the Silent Deplorables being ignored and is responding to that group's need for help and attention. He also is contrary enough & has a big enough ego to like breaking up the elitist 'system' that has been running things for decades. After he is gone in 2020 or 2024, the powers that be will reassert themselves.

So you lefties have nothing to worry about. As Whittaker Chambers said, after leaving the Commies, "I left the winning side."
May all seek, find and follow the Path of Bodhicitta.

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Re: Concise Guide to Conservatism

Post by tkp67 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:38 am

disruption as a political means facilitates those with resource to capitalize on those destruction, it does not address the needs of a nation as whole

Malcolm
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Re: Concise Guide to Conservatism

Post by Malcolm » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:47 am

Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:14 am
Malcolm wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:04 pm
Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:37 pm
Which movement is more destructive of this US culture?
Trumpism.
Flapdoodle. Go back to translating.

Trump is not & will not produce any 'ism'. He is simply noticing the Silent Deplorables being ignored and is responding to that group's need for help and attention. He also is contrary enough & has a big enough ego to like breaking up the elitist 'system' that has been running things for decades. After he is gone in 2020 or 2024, the powers that be will reassert themselves.

So you lefties have nothing to worry about. As Whittaker Chambers said, after leaving the Commies, "I left the winning side."
I wrote a response, and then deleted it. If you cannot see how much this man is damaging the country, you are beyond reach, stuck in an ideological mire.

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Nemo
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Re: Concise Guide to Conservatism

Post by Nemo » Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:18 am

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:47 am
Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:14 am
Malcolm wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:04 pm


Trumpism.
Flapdoodle. Go back to translating.

Trump is not & will not produce any 'ism'. He is simply noticing the Silent Deplorables being ignored and is responding to that group's need for help and attention. He also is contrary enough & has a big enough ego to like breaking up the elitist 'system' that has been running things for decades. After he is gone in 2020 or 2024, the powers that be will reassert themselves.

So you lefties have nothing to worry about. As Whittaker Chambers said, after leaving the Commies, "I left the winning side."
I wrote a response, and then deleted it. If you cannot see how much this man is damaging the country, you are beyond reach, stuck in an ideological mire.
Not everyone thinks the fall of the American empire is a bad thing. The economic implosion his crazy policies will cause in a decade will devastate your ability to project force beyond your borders. The American military will finally shrink out of sheer necessity.

Life without your "help" may be better for many countries and at least we will be making our own decisions.

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PeterC
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Re: Concise Guide to Conservatism

Post by PeterC » Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:32 am

Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:14 am
Malcolm wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:04 pm
Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:37 pm
Which movement is more destructive of this US culture?
Trumpism.
Flapdoodle. Go back to translating.
I'm sure you didn't intend to be dismissive of either Malcolm's political views or his work as a translator, but it felt that way. However I'm not sure I know what 'flapdoodle' actually means.

Trump is not & will not produce any 'ism'. He is simply noticing the Silent Deplorables being ignored and is responding to that group's need for help and attention. He also is contrary enough & has a big enough ego to like breaking up the elitist 'system' that has been running things for decades. After he is gone in 2020 or 2024, the powers that be will reassert themselves.
Characterizing Trump as an anti-elitist profoundly misses the point. The agenda that his so-called administration has pursued is absolutely a pro-elite agenda. He has delivered on pretty much everything the 'conservative' faction wanted (and note that what the word 'conservative' meant in 1957 bears absolutely no relation to what it designates today). They are losing voter support because their policies are profoundly unpopular, so they are preparing for that by a combination of co-opting the judiciary, disabling the functions and administration of federal government, gerrymandering, disenfranchising their political opponents, slashing taxes and making it hard to raise them again, limiting any constraints on business - controls on monopoly power, consumer protections, environmental protections, labor protections - and control of the population through creating a heavily militarized police force sympathetic to themselves, and crippling the education system. The overall project is very simple - shift returns from labor to capital as much as possible. Trump is advancing all of that. They don't care what else Trump does - actually they like it because it distracts attention from how well he's pursuing the core agenda.

Trump's 'outsider' status is a complete nonsense. The guy himself probably has no real political inclinations - it's hard to tell, because he's such a narcissist, he cares only about attention - which is great for the republican party.

There's no point getting into his foreign policy, or lack thereof. Suffice it to say that for a large portion of the world's population outside the US, US foreign policy for the past century has oscillated between bad and outright evil, punctuated only briefly by positive intervention in a couple of wars. From the end of WWII forward it's been pretty much consistently evil.

So you lefties have nothing to worry about. As Whittaker Chambers said, after leaving the Commies, "I left the winning side."
Nobody is winning. Best case scenario is it takes decades to fix what has been done in the past couple of Republican administrations. Worst case scenario - take your pick.

I do feel that citizens of the US and a few other countries - the UK, for instance - have seen their political environment drift so far beyond what was considered 'normal' that they don't realize how extreme it's become. This process, and the means by which it was accomplished, was explained pretty much perfectly by Chomsky decades ago. So Chomsky was marginalized and described as a radical. He's about the only political philosopher left standing who makes any sense of the current situation.

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Re: Concise Guide to Conservatism

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:40 am

Peter C: "I'm sure you didn't intend to be dismissive of either Malcolm's political views or his work as a translator, but it felt that way. However I'm not sure I know what 'flapdoodle' actually means."

No more than Malcolm is dismissive of my political views, nor my small part in helping varied translation projects.

I believe checking a dictionary will reveal the meaning of flapdoodle.
May all seek, find and follow the Path of Bodhicitta.

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Re: Concise Guide to Conservatism

Post by smcj » Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:00 am

Just a reminder; you guys are discussing samsara.

Proceed as you like. Just don’t confuse it with Dharma.
https://soundcloud.com/user-730689343/chenrezig-puja
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)

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PeterC
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Re: Concise Guide to Conservatism

Post by PeterC » Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:50 am

Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:40 am
Peter C: "I'm sure you didn't intend to be dismissive of either Malcolm's political views or his work as a translator, but it felt that way. However I'm not sure I know what 'flapdoodle' actually means."

No more than Malcolm is dismissive of my political views, nor my small part in helping varied translation projects.

I believe checking a dictionary will reveal the meaning of flapdoodle.
flapdoodle in British English
(ˈflæpˌduːdəl )
noun
slang
foolish talk; nonsense

Well, whatever else happened in 2019, at least I learnt a new word. So thank you for that. I'm sure nobody is being dismissive of anyone's work in making the Dharma available. I don't think that anyone's political views here are nonsense, though that doesn't mean I agree with them.
Just a reminder; you guys are discussing samsara.

Proceed as you like. Just don’t confuse it with Dharma.
I don't think anyone was confusing the two in this discussion. However it is in samsara that we find (or don't find) conditions for hearing and practicing the Dharma. So the relative appearances of samsara aren't irrelevant to a Dharma practitioner.

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Re: Concise Guide to Conservatism

Post by smcj » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:29 am

So the relative appearances of samsara aren't irrelevant to a Dharma practitioner.
Of course, hence the Tibetan traditions have the teaching on “the precious human rebirth”. However the Buddha also taught the 1st Noble Truth. So there’s better samsara and worse samsara, but there’s no perfect samsara. A precious human rebirth is the best samsara gets.

My first meditation instructor went into a lifetime retreat in 1948. His group was given zero news about the outside world. They were on retreat and were to focus exclusively on their practices. Then in 1959, after 11 years on retreat, they heard screams, explosions, and gunfire. The broke out of their enclosure to find the monastery under attack. Without any understanding or preparation my teacher started running for his life. He ended up in California in the ‘70s.

So yes, circumstances did invade his practice environment. But until then he tried to make best of his precious human rebirth by dismissing politics and current events.
https://soundcloud.com/user-730689343/chenrezig-puja
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)

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Re: Concise Guide to Conservatism

Post by conebeckham » Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:41 am

PeterC wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:32 am
Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:14 am
Malcolm wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:04 pm


Trumpism.
Flapdoodle. Go back to translating.
I'm sure you didn't intend to be dismissive of either Malcolm's political views or his work as a translator, but it felt that way. However I'm not sure I know what 'flapdoodle' actually means.

Trump is not & will not produce any 'ism'. He is simply noticing the Silent Deplorables being ignored and is responding to that group's need for help and attention. He also is contrary enough & has a big enough ego to like breaking up the elitist 'system' that has been running things for decades. After he is gone in 2020 or 2024, the powers that be will reassert themselves.
Characterizing Trump as an anti-elitist profoundly misses the point. The agenda that his so-called administration has pursued is absolutely a pro-elite agenda. He has delivered on pretty much everything the 'conservative' faction wanted (and note that what the word 'conservative' meant in 1957 bears absolutely no relation to what it designates today). They are losing voter support because their policies are profoundly unpopular, so they are preparing for that by a combination of co-opting the judiciary, disabling the functions and administration of federal government, gerrymandering, disenfranchising their political opponents, slashing taxes and making it hard to raise them again, limiting any constraints on business - controls on monopoly power, consumer protections, environmental protections, labor protections - and control of the population through creating a heavily militarized police force sympathetic to themselves, and crippling the education system. The overall project is very simple - shift returns from labor to capital as much as possible. Trump is advancing all of that. They don't care what else Trump does - actually they like it because it distracts attention from how well he's pursuing the core agenda.

Trump's 'outsider' status is a complete nonsense. The guy himself probably has no real political inclinations - it's hard to tell, because he's such a narcissist, he cares only about attention - which is great for the republican party.

There's no point getting into his foreign policy, or lack thereof. Suffice it to say that for a large portion of the world's population outside the US, US foreign policy for the past century has oscillated between bad and outright evil, punctuated only briefly by positive intervention in a couple of wars. From the end of WWII forward it's been pretty much consistently evil.

So you lefties have nothing to worry about. As Whittaker Chambers said, after leaving the Commies, "I left the winning side."
Nobody is winning. Best case scenario is it takes decades to fix what has been done in the past couple of Republican administrations. Worst case scenario - take your pick.

I do feel that citizens of the US and a few other countries - the UK, for instance - have seen their political environment drift so far beyond what was considered 'normal' that they don't realize how extreme it's become. This process, and the means by which it was accomplished, was explained pretty much perfectly by Chomsky decades ago. So Chomsky was marginalized and described as a radical. He's about the only political philosopher left standing who makes any sense of the current situation.
Agree with all of this, and will only add that what we may call “Trumpism” is a sort of Populist Anti-establishment-appearing, appearing-to be speaking for the working class movement, while in actuality providing a smokescreen of Jingoism and Nationalist rhetoric to cover up the ongoing dismantlement of anything that impedes passive income and unbridled wealth accumulation for the elite. But frankly, we may as well call this Reaganism, or the general position of the GOP since that time, when “trickle down economics,” the onslaught of Evangelical Fundamentalist Xtianity and Millenialism, and general Neoliberalist economics became normal or even dominant. And so-called “liberal” presidents —by which I mean Democrats-did not staunch these wounds, and in some cases made them worse (Citizens United, for instance),

The political gamesmanship of the GOP, with electoral college engineering, etc., is just another natural development in a process of Anti-democratization.

The GOP under Trump is not conservative in any of the classic senses of the term.
Last edited by conebeckham on Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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PeterC
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Re: Concise Guide to Conservatism

Post by PeterC » Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:42 am

smcj wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:29 am
So the relative appearances of samsara aren't irrelevant to a Dharma practitioner.
Of course, hence the Tibetan traditions have the teaching on “the precious human rebirth”. However the Buddha also taught the 1st Noble Truth. So there’s better samsara and worse samsara, but there’s no perfect samsara. A precious human rebirth is the best samsara gets.

My first meditation instructor went into a lifetime retreat in 1948. His group was given zero news about the outside world. They were on retreat and were to focus exclusively on their practices. Then in 1959, after 11 years on retreat, they heard screams, explosions, and gunfire. The broke out of their enclosure to find the monastery under attack. Without any understanding or preparation my teacher started running for his life. He ended up in California in the ‘70s.

So yes, circumstances did invade his practice environment. But until then he tried to make best of his precious human rebirth by dismissing politics and current events.
Where/when was that? Sounds like something that would have been newsworthy at the time...

We're not disagreeing, btw. I wrote that because there's an occasional tendency of Dharma practitioners to disregard/trivialize problems in samsara with perspectives such as - there's no joy in samsara, it all sucks, so why bother trying to improve your or any else's temporary conditions? It's similar to the "emptiness mic drop" argument that comes up occasionally.

It can be a little dangerous because taken to the extreme, it justifies you walking past a beggar and not giving them money because "all samsara is suffering so giving a few dollars doesn't make any difference". Of course there could be another very sincere Buddhist right after you who also walks past and doesn't give money to the beggar because it's better spent on a Dharma charity, and then another person walks past and doesn't give money because donations to charities that get people off the streets are more effective than giving money to beggars, then another person walks past and doesn't give money because he's saving up to go into retreat...

Exercising wisdom in samsara is hard if you're not omniscient, but what choice do we have.

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Re: Concise Guide to Conservatism

Post by Kim O'Hara » Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:37 am

conebeckham wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:41 am
PeterC wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:32 am
Nicholas Weeks wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:14 am


Flapdoodle. Go back to translating.
I'm sure you didn't intend to be dismissive of either Malcolm's political views or his work as a translator, but it felt that way. However I'm not sure I know what 'flapdoodle' actually means.

Trump is not & will not produce any 'ism'. He is simply noticing the Silent Deplorables being ignored and is responding to that group's need for help and attention. He also is contrary enough & has a big enough ego to like breaking up the elitist 'system' that has been running things for decades. After he is gone in 2020 or 2024, the powers that be will reassert themselves.
Characterizing Trump as an anti-elitist profoundly misses the point. The agenda that his so-called administration has pursued is absolutely a pro-elite agenda. He has delivered on pretty much everything the 'conservative' faction wanted (and note that what the word 'conservative' meant in 1957 bears absolutely no relation to what it designates today). They are losing voter support because their policies are profoundly unpopular, so they are preparing for that by a combination of co-opting the judiciary, disabling the functions and administration of federal government, gerrymandering, disenfranchising their political opponents, slashing taxes and making it hard to raise them again, limiting any constraints on business - controls on monopoly power, consumer protections, environmental protections, labor protections - and control of the population through creating a heavily militarized police force sympathetic to themselves, and crippling the education system. The overall project is very simple - shift returns from labor to capital as much as possible. Trump is advancing all of that. They don't care what else Trump does - actually they like it because it distracts attention from how well he's pursuing the core agenda.

Trump's 'outsider' status is a complete nonsense. The guy himself probably has no real political inclinations - it's hard to tell, because he's such a narcissist, he cares only about attention - which is great for the republican party.

There's no point getting into his foreign policy, or lack thereof. Suffice it to say that for a large portion of the world's population outside the US, US foreign policy for the past century has oscillated between bad and outright evil, punctuated only briefly by positive intervention in a couple of wars. From the end of WWII forward it's been pretty much consistently evil.

So you lefties have nothing to worry about. As Whittaker Chambers said, after leaving the Commies, "I left the winning side."
Nobody is winning. Best case scenario is it takes decades to fix what has been done in the past couple of Republican administrations. Worst case scenario - take your pick.

I do feel that citizens of the US and a few other countries - the UK, for instance - have seen their political environment drift so far beyond what was considered 'normal' that they don't realize how extreme it's become. This process, and the means by which it was accomplished, was explained pretty much perfectly by Chomsky decades ago. So Chomsky was marginalized and described as a radical. He's about the only political philosopher left standing who makes any sense of the current situation.
Agree with all of this, and will only add that what we may call “Trumpism” is a sort of Populist Anti-establishment-appearing, appearing-to be speaking for the working class movement, while in actuality providing a smokescreen of Jingoism and Nationalist rhetoric to cover up the ongoing dismantlement of anything that impedes passive income and unbridled wealth accumulation for the elite. But frankly, we may as well call this Reaganism, or the general position of the GOP since that time, when “trickle down economics,” the onslaught of Evangelical Fundamentalist Xtianity and Millenialism, and general Neoliberalist economics became normal or even dominant. And so-called “liberal” presidents —by which I mean Democrats-did not staunch these wounds, and in some cases made them worse (Citizens United, for instance),

The political gamesmanship of the GOP, with electoral college engineering, etc., is just another natural development in a process of Anti-democratization.

The GOP under Trump is not conservative in any of the classic senses of the term.
In case you didn't know, there's a closely related conversation on the Greta Thunberg thread at the moment. Here's a bit from me ...
Kim O'Hara wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:08 am
...I'm reading Monbiot's Out of the Wreckage - https://www.monbiot.com/2017/08/01/out- ... reckage-2/ - and it's very relevant here. He argues that there is presently no "story" - no way of framing the political and environmental discourse - other than the totally toxic neoliberal story. Keynesian economic policies collapsed in the 1970s due to factors beyond government control and(importantly) can't simply be revived because the world's circumstances have changed so much, particularly in terms of overpopulation and environmental overshoot.
This, he says, is why the Left parties have collapsed nearly everywhere. leaving bottom-feeding populism as the only feasible alternative to the neolibs. Hence Trump, Boris and the rest: people disenfranchised by the Right have nowhere else to turn.
His solution is to create a new narrative based on community and stewardship, and to embody that narrative though community action and new political entities; XR might be one such, in his terms, but I haven't got that far through the book yet.

Read Monbiot for a hopeful message. If that's too hard or too dry, read William Gibson's The Peripheral or Paolo Bacigalupi's The Water Knife for what happens if we don't solve the problem. That will motivate you! (Yes, of course I know they are SF - but good SF books are thought experiments and these are very good.)

:reading:
Kim
... but there's lots more if you want to look.

:coffee:
Kim

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Vasana
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Re: Concise Guide to Conservatism

Post by Vasana » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:55 pm

PeterC wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:42 am
smcj wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:29 am
So the relative appearances of samsara aren't irrelevant to a Dharma practitioner.
[...]
So yes, circumstances did invade his practice environment. But until then he tried to make best of his precious human rebirth by dismissing politics and current events.
Where/when was that? Sounds like something that would have been newsworthy at the time...

We're not disagreeing, btw. I wrote that because there's an occasional tendency of Dharma practitioners to disregard/trivialize problems in samsara with perspectives such as - there's no joy in samsara, it all sucks, so why bother trying to improve your or any else's temporary conditions? It's similar to the "emptiness mic drop" argument that comes up occasionally.

It can be a little dangerous because taken to the extreme, it justifies you walking past a beggar and not giving them money because "all samsara is suffering so giving a few dollars doesn't make any difference". Of course there could be another very sincere Buddhist right after you who also walks past and doesn't give money to the beggar because it's better spent on a Dharma charity, and then another person walks past and doesn't give money because donations to charities that get people off the streets are more effective than giving money to beggars, then another person walks past and doesn't give money because he's saving up to go into retreat...

Exercising wisdom in samsara is hard if you're not omniscient, but what choice do we have.
:good:

If Buddhist or secular ethics had no purpose or application outside of Dharma practice, people like HH Dalai Lama wouldn't emphasise their importance. He's not promoting these values for a better samsara but knows these values will enable a better shot at seeing samsara more clearly. Not everyone can live as if on retreat.
ཨོཾ ་ མ ་ ཎི ་ པ ་ དྨེ ་ ཧཱུྃ ། འ ་ ཨ ་ ཧ ་ ཤ ་ ས ་ མ །
Om Mani Peme Hum ། 'A Ah Ha Sha Sa Ma
'When alone, watch your mind,When with others, watch your speech' - Old Kadampa saying

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Re: Concise Guide to Conservatism

Post by tkp67 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:07 pm

Personally I find it grossly ironic that people who practice and promote the middle way would entertain and practice the polarization of any part of their existence for any reason.

The middle way taught to avoid polarization and practicing it in some aspects of life gives no credence to these actions rather *as I see it* these actions take away from the merit gained.

I know that it is so common and customary that it seems unreasonable to question the human nature behind it all, but once again * as I see it * this is a consequence of the degenerate age.

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Re: Concise Guide to Conservatism

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:32 pm

Fixing samsara is not possible, nor even a goal of Mahayana (nor Hinayana). Yet reducing suffering and/or increasing happiness of others is - both a path & a goal. That path & goal of Mahayana is shared by Conservatism as practiced & advocated in Kirk's writings.

Only 14 downloads of Kirk's little book (see June 3 post). I wonder how many of the posters or lurkers in this thread have read it all?

It is easier to be triggered by the word 'conservative' and out will flow opinions...

Chapter 3, "Conservatives and Conscience" is particularly worthy of thought.
May all seek, find and follow the Path of Bodhicitta.

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Vasana
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Re: Concise Guide to Conservatism

Post by Vasana » Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:40 pm

Are there any conservative governments today that align with Kirk in your opinion, Nicholas? Any that don't rely on corporate interests, lobbyists and focus groups?

If not, then I wonder what the use of an antiquated conservative ideology is in the face of how it manifests today. I posted some critique of just one excerpt you shared a page ago which also makes me question whether a conservative approach really is the the most aligned with Mahayana.
ཨོཾ ་ མ ་ ཎི ་ པ ་ དྨེ ་ ཧཱུྃ ། འ ་ ཨ ་ ཧ ་ ཤ ་ ས ་ མ །
Om Mani Peme Hum ། 'A Ah Ha Sha Sa Ma
'When alone, watch your mind,When with others, watch your speech' - Old Kadampa saying

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