A & Thigle in Dzogchen

dorjeshonnu
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Re: A & Thigle in Dzogchen

Post by dorjeshonnu » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:30 pm

Ish wrote:With regards to the visualization of the white A in the rainbow thigle, Can one use the short A stroke (used in Tummo) instead of the full Tibetan A?

From the perspective of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu's Guru Yoga.

Thanks
it is said, however, that if you perform a dzogchen guru yoga incorrectly even once, in each of your future lives (and there will be several before the end) there will appear an irritable ogre and a flatulent monkey with your solar and lunar channels, ever tapping their feet, and interrupting your zhine periodically. the ogre complains incessantly and the monkey's supply of bangladeshi curry is never ending. your awakening will be blocked until you can integrate these errors thoroughly

still it is better than sitting with vajrapani set over you with a phurba tip waiting to split your head into seven pieces

Stewart
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Re: A & Thigle in Dzogchen

Post by Stewart » Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:26 pm

dorjeshonnu wrote:
Ish wrote:With regards to the visualization of the white A in the rainbow thigle, Can one use the short A stroke (used in Tummo) instead of the full Tibetan A?

From the perspective of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu's Guru Yoga.

Thanks
it is said, however, that if you perform a dzogchen guru yoga incorrectly even once, in each of your future lives (and there will be several before the end) there will appear an irritable ogre and a flatulent monkey with your solar and lunar channels, ever tapping their feet, and interrupting your zhine periodically. the ogre complains incessantly and the monkey's supply of bangladeshi curry is never ending. your awakening will be blocked until you can integrate these errors thoroughly

still it is better than sitting with vajrapani set over you with a phurba tip waiting to split your head into seven pieces

O............... K.........?

(tumbleweed rolls by silently)
s.

Ish
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Re: A & Thigle in Dzogchen

Post by Ish » Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:49 pm

dorjeshonnu wrote:
Ish wrote:With regards to the visualization of the white A in the rainbow thigle, Can one use the short A stroke (used in Tummo) instead of the full Tibetan A?

From the perspective of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu's Guru Yoga.

Thanks
it is said, however, that if you perform a dzogchen guru yoga incorrectly even once, in each of your future lives (and there will be several before the end) there will appear an irritable ogre and a flatulent monkey with your solar and lunar channels, ever tapping their feet, and interrupting your zhine periodically. the ogre complains incessantly and the monkey's supply of bangladeshi curry is never ending. your awakening will be blocked until you can integrate these errors thoroughly

still it is better than sitting with vajrapani set over you with a phurba tip waiting to split your head into seven pieces

Hahahah. The ogre and monkey interrupting the zhine is a BLESSING not a curse!!

dorjeshonnu
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Re: A & Thigle in Dzogchen

Post by dorjeshonnu » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:40 pm

Ish wrote:Hahahah. The ogre and monkey interrupting the zhine is a BLESSING not a curse!!
shhhhhhhhhhhhh

rgyal.ba dgongs brgyud secrets of the rdo.rje 'dzin cannot be revealed before unprepared persons

such information might be hazardous to their spiritual health

Sherab Rigdrol
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Re: A & Thigle in Dzogchen

Post by Sherab Rigdrol » Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:26 am

I have the Guru Yoga book by ChNN, however I'm confused. When we do Guru Yoga of the white A, do we visualize at the heart, or the third eye. Also, unfortunately I lack the ineptitude of visualization. Do we visualize ourselves separate/outside of our body with the thigle, or do we visualize that it's actually in us?

Signed,
Wishing there was a Dzogchen book for children...

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heart
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Re: A & Thigle in Dzogchen

Post by heart » Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:32 am

Sherab Rigdrol wrote:I have the Guru Yoga book by ChNN, however I'm confused. When we do Guru Yoga of the white A, do we visualize at the heart, or the third eye. Also, unfortunately I lack the ineptitude of visualization. Do we visualize ourselves separate/outside of our body with the thigle, or do we visualize that it's actually in us?

Signed,
Wishing there was a Dzogchen book for children...
In the center of your body.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

LOTUSBORN
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Re: A & Thigle in Dzogchen

Post by LOTUSBORN » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:02 am

Question regarding white A for guru yoga. From what I heard it is visualized facing outward, not facing us. So do we picture Tibetan letter A as if looking behind it, in reverse (if I have a photo of Tibetan letter A and just look at it from backside)?

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heart
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Re: A & Thigle in Dzogchen

Post by heart » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:24 am

LOTUSBORN wrote:Question regarding white A for guru yoga. From what I heard it is visualized facing outward, not facing us. So do we picture Tibetan letter A as if looking behind it, in reverse (if I have a photo of Tibetan letter A and just look at it from backside)?
Well yes and no,when you do visualizations you are not supposed to fix your view point like that. The Ah is in the center of your body, you could see it from many different angels if you want, from the front or the back, from below or from the side. However, the most important point of visualization is confidence that it is actually there. If you fix your attention in a contrived way you will just get tired and uninspired.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

Yeti
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Re: A & Thigle in Dzogchen

Post by Yeti » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:07 am

heart wrote:
LOTUSBORN wrote:Question regarding white A for guru yoga. From what I heard it is visualized facing outward, not facing us. So do we picture Tibetan letter A as if looking behind it, in reverse (if I have a photo of Tibetan letter A and just look at it from backside)?
Well yes and no,when you do visualizations you are not supposed to fix your view point like that. The Ah is in the center of your body, you could see it from many different angels if you want, from the front or the back, from below or from the side. However, the most important point of visualization is confidence that it is actually there. If you fix your attention in a contrived way you will just get tired and uninspired.

/magnus
That's a good point. IMHO in meditative visualisation one has to drop the notion of perception from a viewing point per se and begin to view transparently inwardly and outwardly with a full circumference in the 10 directions. I think this is just one aspect of practice that challenges and dissolves our normal notion of perception. It's quite challenging (at least for me it is).
"When a Dzogchen Yogi hears Shakyamuni Buddha turning the Wheel of the Dharma of the Four Noble Truths he hears Samathabhadra proclaiming the most profound Dzogpachenpo." - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche

Andrew108
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Re: A & Thigle in Dzogchen

Post by Andrew108 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:26 am

This is true. Also the syllable visualized is transparent too. No solid colors.
The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.

Yeti
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Re: A & Thigle in Dzogchen

Post by Yeti » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:07 pm

Andrew108 wrote:This is true. Also the syllable visualized is transparent too. No solid colors.
Yes, transparent like a rainbow.

I used to have all sorts of troubles with the walls of the palaces in the mandala and also what was going on outside. I don't know how many times my teachers have to tell me quite clearly how to visualise, finally the message begins to get through. :zzz:

I actually think this is part of the skilful means of these practices that helps us dis-fixate from our normal mode of awareness/perception.
"When a Dzogchen Yogi hears Shakyamuni Buddha turning the Wheel of the Dharma of the Four Noble Truths he hears Samathabhadra proclaiming the most profound Dzogpachenpo." - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche

Dronma
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Re: A & Thigle in Dzogchen

Post by Dronma » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:49 pm

Andrew108 wrote:This is true. Also the syllable visualized is transparent too. No solid colors.
:thumbsup:
It is a symbol of sound, light and rays, all inseparable from us.
Nothing solid that we can grasp from it...
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~

Tirthan
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Re: A & Thigle in Dzogchen

Post by Tirthan » Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:40 pm

One question that is a little bit off-topic:
in some practices we use visualising A-thung in the navel-chakra. Is this symbol associated with the sound ¨A¨?

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