Taoism unity with Buddhism -- help translation and input

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San Feng zhen ren
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:54 am

Taoism unity with Buddhism -- help translation and input

Post by San Feng zhen ren » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:18 pm

Hi guys im currently trying to understand Taoist master Liu Yi Mings writings - he is 18th century Daoist immortal and he joins Taoism,confucianism and buddhism into a unity in his writings so i thought it fitting that im on the right forum for your guys input and help.
Ive been reading his writings for some time now and im trying to understand authentically Buddhism and Taoism.
The essence of what im trying to understand his explanation of how to tame/subdue the human mind and arise the mind of tao(""the Nurturing true qi Samadhi"" 入於养气之三昧矣)... so he does a commentary on Lu Dong Bins tablet on how to cultivate true Samadhi..
So im trying to grasp his exact Chinese and what he means of the method/technique without falling into emptiness or grasping at forms which liu frequently warns about regarding many practices.

So ill highlight the bits im wanting the help with if anyone can assist me with this
And any explanation on how to do this,and i will be listening in earnest ,i constantly think about this in the background of my mind through the day for months,im not thinking of it conciously but its subconciously there when i encounter something and i internally am drawn back to this chapter and dont know why but i feel it holds something i cant understand(if that makes sense,i hope it does) ,its always there and i know it holds keys to helping me understand i just cant understand it fully ,and dont know exactly how to do it or what it means

the key chapter in Lu Dong Bins tablet is titled 降心为不为。Ill put the whole chapter at the bottom of the page
now lius commentary......

道心者,本来不识不知,顺帝之则之心meaning? ,为真心;人心者,后起有识有知七情六欲之心,为假心
降心者,降其人心之假也。然降人心,非是守心空心-"do Not observing the mind or emptying mind",亦非是强制定心,须要顺其自然HOW?。
悟真云:顺其所欲,渐次导之"what is meaning of how to do this?"。只此二语,便是降心妙诀。故曰降心为不为。曰为者,心必降也;曰不为者,不强降也。降而不降,不降而降 ,有用用中无用,无功功里施功矣。盖人之顽心,积习成性meaning?,如火炼成顽铁一块 ,至坚至固,牢不可破。若束之太急,是以心制心,心愈多而块愈坚,反起心病,阴符经云:火生於木,祸发必克者是也。故降心必用渐修之功方能济事。渐修之功,无伤於彼,有益於我,为而不为矣。

动静知宗祖,无事更寻谁。(observing movement and calm know the ancestor of your clan, without work how can you find it?)

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Re: Taoism unity with Buddhism -- help translation and input

Post by Huifeng » Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:12 am


Interesting text. But, before diving in, if I may:

1. Can you please post up a traditional character version? Not that I can't read jianti, but originally this would be in trad characters, after all. Some things do get garbled in the transition.

2. Can you maybe be a little clearer on what exact passages you want help with?

3. Perhaps the Mods can move this to the Chinese Buddhist Forum. It's specifically Chinese after all, and not so much Exploring Buddhism, as seeing how it developed in China during the late period (Qing).

~~ Huifeng

San Feng zhen ren
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Taoism unity with Buddhism -- help translation and input

Post by San Feng zhen ren » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:57 am

Wherever you would like to put this post will be good and helpful im sure
heres the traditional Text i found online ,ill highlight the parts of the text that im wanting clarity on
Ill list the Lines of this text that i want help with understanding and also translating to understandable clear English if you possibly can
I put this post in exploring Buddhism because i did not know where to put this post . :anjali:

In this Line on the real heart mind i dont understand 道心者,本來不識不知,順帝之則之心,為真心---- it seems to directly translate as follow the emperor principle heart, i cant understand it-- maybe you can clarify its meaning and give explanation?順帝之則之心

2 the next part is his secrets and key to understanding how to subdue(tame) the human heart/mind 降心者 ,降其人心之假也. So in this line 降心者,降其人心之假也。然降人心,非是守心空心,亦非是強制定心,須要順其自然 ----what does Liu mean about one must follow this naturally? how does one do that? in one context does liu mean? in what way is he implying one should follow the heart mind naturaly to subdue it? im confused about his method of subduing the heart/mind here and how does he do it?

3 he further explains how to subdue(tame) the heart mind quoting a quote from Wuzhenpian (understanding reality- english-Thomas Cleary translated this book) 悟真雲:順其所欲,漸次導之 so does Liu say "follow the desires,gradually directing and guiding"? ---what method is Liu getting at here and how do i follow this? ,what is the books intent here and how do i understand this line so i can put into practice.
I know this line is important because he calls the two words wonderful secrets "只此二語,便是降心妙訣"

4 曰為者,心必降也;曰不為者,不強降也。降而不降,不降而降,有用用中無用,無功功裏施功矣--- here he says about not forceful subduing,as like above this seems to be his main device on how to tame the mind ,i get a feeling its not a form of sitting and meditating but a way to bring about Samadhi

5 蓋人之頑心,積習成性如火煉成頑鐵一塊,至堅至固,牢不可破....- im wanting a direct translation of each character here(so it will help with my chinese) and general explanation on this part

6 does this 煉己之功,莫先於降心 mean.--- "first there is none who do not first subdue the human heart mind ?"= first subdue the human heart

Thanks again



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