Ngondro Tulku Urgyen

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philji
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Ngondro Tulku Urgyen

Post by philji » Fri May 31, 2013 3:02 pm

In the preliminary teachings as taught by Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche and his sons at Gomde, when doing Refuge and bodhicitta,is it compulsory to comine it with prostrations? Or is it sufficient to just recite and count mantras......? I am asking this as I am now 61 and not as flexible as I once was!!!!

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Re: Ngondro Tulku Urgyen

Post by heart » Fri May 31, 2013 3:15 pm

philji wrote:In the preliminary teachings as taught by Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche and his sons at Gomde, when doing Refuge and bodhicitta,is it compulsory to comine it with prostrations? Or is it sufficient to just recite and count mantras......? I am asking this as I am now 61 and not as flexible as I once was!!!!
Erik Pema Kunzang once told us that you do full prostrations for as long as you can, then do half prostrations, then sit down and prostrate, then just bow your head a little while touching your three points. I have no idea if these instructions come from Tulku Urgyen or not, but somehow it seems quite reasonable. Yeah, prostrations are not easy for us older folks, but on the other hand the only Tibetans you see doing prostrations are old.

You are doing the short Ngondro TUR wrote for the Tukdrub Barche Kunsel?

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

philji
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Re: Ngondro Tulku Urgyen

Post by philji » Fri May 31, 2013 3:28 pm

I have completed kagyu ngondro some years back and because I have a strong connection to the lineage of Chogyur Lingpa I am thinking of starting Lamey Tukdrub Barchey Kunsel, short version as arranged by Tulku Urgyen. I will be seeng Chökyi Nyima Rinpoche in a few weeks so will ask him then if I should do it....

ngodrup
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Re: Ngondro Tulku Urgyen

Post by ngodrup » Fri May 31, 2013 4:03 pm

The physical component in Ngondro is important.
Traditionally, it's called "prostration and circumambulation."
So, if you cannot do prostration, you can do circumambulation--
even in a wheel chair. In the case of doing circumambulation,
you count refuge verses. This is general advice, not specific
to Lamey Tukdrub Barchey Kunsel.

I praise your desire to do a second ngondro. Please find a way to
complete it in this lifetime. It will be amazing!

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Re: Ngondro Tulku Urgyen

Post by heart » Fri May 31, 2013 5:13 pm

philji wrote:I have completed kagyu ngondro some years back and because I have a strong connection to the lineage of Chogyur Lingpa I am thinking of starting Lamey Tukdrub Barchey Kunsel, short version as arranged by Tulku Urgyen. I will be seeng Chökyi Nyima Rinpoche in a few weeks so will ask him then if I should do it....
Probably Rinpoche ask you to do 11,111 instead of the full amount, but who knows. :-) I also started out with a kagyu ngondro, but have been practicing Chokling Tersar now for many years.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

yegyal
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Re: Ngondro Tulku Urgyen

Post by yegyal » Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:21 am

The simple answer is, yes, they normally are combined with prostrations. However, these are really three separate components to the ngondro, so it's actually more the norm that prostration and refuge are combined, rather than the rule. Also, it depends a little on which version you are using, as I believe Chokyi Nyima may have revised it in order to separate the refuge and bodhicitta into two verses rather than combined in one. But if you're going to see him in a few weeks, then just wait and ask him. As he's the authority, not me.

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smcj
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Re: Ngondro Tulku Urgyen

Post by smcj » Sat Jun 01, 2013 6:25 am

I'm 58 and 80 pounds overweight. I use a raised prostration board. I stand on the floor and the board raised 4". That helps in the part of the exercise where you push up to return to the standing position. It makes it much easier, like 40% easier. It is usually frowned upon, but since I'm old I got special permission, and that from a really tough no-compromise lama. Knee pads taped to the board help with the impact.

But you know your situation. Whatever you do in this regard, or don't do, don't let it become an impediment to practice. Better to do what you honestly can than to be a purist and don't do anything at all.

Speaking of prostrations, I recommend to everybody that they get a swimmer's lap counter. You put it on your finger and click it every prostration. It's so much nicer than the hand mala, or even worse, a full mala!
In the Tantra of the Beautiful Auspiciousness (bKra shis mdzes ldan gyi rgyud), this "Great Primordial Purity" (spyi gzhi) is defined as follows:

What is known as "The Great Primordial Purity”
Is the state abiding before authentic Buddhas arose
And before impure sentient beings appeared;
It is called the great Primordial radiance of immutable awareness.

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Sometimes you can get shown the light
In the strangest of places
If you look at it right.
-Robert Hunter-

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