self-generation as stand alone shamatha practice
- Johnny Dangerous
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self-generation as stand alone shamatha practice
I've seen this mentioned in a number of books, i'm wondering, how often is self-generation as the deity done by itself, outside of Sadhana practice?
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
- Johnny Dangerous
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Re: self-generation as stand alone shamatha practice
No one?
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Re: self-generation as stand alone shamatha practice
Maybe you could translate it a littlebit for non-native speakers?Johnny Dangerous wrote:I've seen this mentioned in a number of books, i'm wondering, how often is self-generation as the deity done by itself, outside of Sadhana practice?
What do you mean by "how often" and "itself"? Whom are you talking about?
- conebeckham
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Re: self-generation as stand alone shamatha practice
Hmmm......
I've gotta think this is a bit more of an advanced practice, for someone already familiar with the self-generation as outlined in sadhana....though in a sense, it's also a basic part of sadhana practice itself. In other words, the generation stage contemplations ARE samatha practice.
If you're talking about "spontaneous recollection," that can be used as a basis for samatha, but it's usually much more than that sort of approach.
I've gotta think this is a bit more of an advanced practice, for someone already familiar with the self-generation as outlined in sadhana....though in a sense, it's also a basic part of sadhana practice itself. In other words, the generation stage contemplations ARE samatha practice.
If you're talking about "spontaneous recollection," that can be used as a basis for samatha, but it's usually much more than that sort of approach.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
- Johnny Dangerous
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Re: self-generation as stand alone shamatha practice
conebeckham wrote:Hmmm......
I've gotta think this is a bit more of an advanced practice, for someone already familiar with the self-generation as outlined in sadhana....though in a sense, it's also a basic part of sadhana practice itself. In other words, the generation stage contemplations ARE samatha practice.
If you're talking about "spontaneous recollection," that can be used as a basis for samatha, but it's usually much more than that sort of approach.
That answers it somewhat, I was just wondering whether people do generation by itself, I can see an argument that this approach would be..unbalanced I guess, but like I said I have read numerous books where front or self-generation is put in the category of shamatha practice..I understand it IS shamatha in the context of the sadhana of course, it just seemed in the books as if it was being alluded to as a stand alone practice as well.
Thanks.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
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Re: self-generation as stand alone shamatha practice
Are you asking about using self-generation of the deity as an object of shamata, or are you talking about using self-generation in post-meditation? I would have to agree with Cone, that self-generation and shamata go together. You need stable shamata to be effective at self-generation, while at the same time a one-pointed mind is produced from doing the visualizations. So your shamata will develop from doing generation stage practice. I don't think that I have ever heard of doing self-visualization as just a stand alone shamata practice. Of course, there are practices out there, such as some guru yogas, where you are visualizing yourself as a deity. These practices are not necessarily full on generation stage practices. I would suggest reading (if you haven't already) books like Gyatrul Rinpoche's Generating the Deity. The fairly new book Vajra Wisdom has two translations that I found very helpful in learning about generation stage. I am sure that you know this, but it is very good to learn about stable pride and the recollection of purity to get an idea about the meaning behind the visualizations. Generation stage is a huge subject, and I feel that I am just starting to scratch the surface of its meaning. I may be wrong, but I think that the feeling of the whole thing may be more important than what you are visualizing. Apologies if this has nothing to do with what you are asking.
Troy
Sorry I didn't see your post when I wrote this.
Troy
Sorry I didn't see your post when I wrote this.
- Johnny Dangerous
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Re: self-generation as stand alone shamatha practice
No, both your answers were very relevant, thanks!
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Re: self-generation as stand alone shamatha practice
I wonder about your wording "by itself".
As far as i know, it is pretty much work of training and concentration to generate a visualization.
But i heard from a beginner in meditation, that he had some vision of the buddha coming nearer and nearer to him until they melt together. This came by itself while sitting in meditation.
He asked my teacher, if he was allowed to meditate like this because as a total beginner he had no initiation. The Geshe said Yes, it is okay.
Maybe it was a memory of his past life practices.
As far as i know, it is pretty much work of training and concentration to generate a visualization.
But i heard from a beginner in meditation, that he had some vision of the buddha coming nearer and nearer to him until they melt together. This came by itself while sitting in meditation.
He asked my teacher, if he was allowed to meditate like this because as a total beginner he had no initiation. The Geshe said Yes, it is okay.
Maybe it was a memory of his past life practices.
Re: self-generation as stand alone shamatha practice
Quite right. It also becomes clear that embodiment includes more than 'visualisation'. We might suggest incarnate representation of completely empowered qualities . . .CrawfordHollow wrote:I may be wrong, but I think that the feeling of the whole thing may be more important than what you are visualizing.
Re: self-generation as stand alone shamatha practice
Edit: okay for him in this personal case.Ayu wrote:He asked my teacher, if he was allowed to meditate like this because as a total beginner he had no initiation. The Geshe said Yes, it is okay.
- Johnny Dangerous
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Re: self-generation as stand alone shamatha practice
Ayu wrote:I wonder about your wording "by itself".
As far as i know, it is pretty much work of training and concentration to generate a visualization.
But i heard from a beginner in meditation, that he had some vision of the buddha coming nearer and nearer to him until they melt together. This came by itself while sitting in meditation.
He asked my teacher, if he was allowed to meditate like this because as a total beginner he had no initiation. The Geshe said Yes, it is okay.
Maybe it was a memory of his past life practices.
That's very different than what i'm talking about, I was just asking about self-generation as the deity outside of sadhanas, but not in post-meditation.. like instead of of focus on breath etc., you sit for 30 minutes or whatever and do self generation, because i'd seen it mentioned in books like that.
From what i've asked my own teachers, I don't get the impression that it's "not ok" (though I could be wrong, and i'll bet there's different answers), I was just wondering if it's regularly done.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Re: self-generation as stand alone shamatha practice
Personally, if I am strapped for time or do not have my sadhana text with me, I just go straight into the visualisation, but normally coupled with mantra and maybe the four line prayer for the deity (if I can remember it). Personally I cannot recollect any sadhana that has visualisation without mantra. To tell you the truth though, I rarely get into the mindset of seperating out that this part of the sadhana is shamatha, this part is shine, this part... I have not really been taught to see it that way
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Re: self-generation as stand alone shamatha practice
I think it may be a good idea to do this to when you are learning a sadhana. Meditation is familiarization, right? So it would be good practice to get familiar with the visualization. As long as you don't ignore the other aspects of the sadhana and just focus on shamatha using the deity as an object, I would say it would be a fine way to practice shamatha, especially if you have had the empowerment.
Troy
Troy
Re: self-generation as stand alone shamatha practice
We should strive to generate ourselves as the yidam 24/7
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.
-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra
"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."
-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra
"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."
-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats